Another Genetic Question: Javas

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Chickndaddy, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. Chickndaddy

    Chickndaddy Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jul 26, 2007
    East Texas
    Okay. At one time I had Black, Mottled, and White Javas. The Black and Mottled Javas were generally very healthy. But the White Javas hatched out very small and were weaker and developed slower than the Blacks. When they did reach laying age they layed quite well and were eventually just as large as the Blacks. However between 12-18 months generally I would start losing hens. I assumed the majority of these problems were from inbreeding.

    I have thought and thought on that problem and in my mind this breeding scenario would help but maybe I don't understand the genetics behind it. What I would do now if I had them was cross the White Java males onto Black Java females and vice versa. You would cross the offspring from that breeding to White Javas. Your F3 generation should have white birds and when bred back to White Javas they would throw all White Javas.

    I wish I could draw a punnet square on the screen to show the mating, but I will try to sort of do it. I hope it works.

    BB - homozygous Black Java
    Bb - heterozygous Black Java
    bb - homozygous White Java (has to be because two recessives)


    b b
    B Bb Bb
    B Bb Bb

    b b
    B Bb Bb
    b bb bb

    b b
    b bb bb
    b bb bb

    Now if the Black isn't dominant over the White then this whole idea is completely wrong. So all you poultry genetics buffs, tell me. Would that have helped add some new genetic material to my White Java flock? Is my theory right and at the end I would end up with White Javas after two generations or would I have been losing the white?
     
  2. Chickndaddy

    Chickndaddy Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jul 26, 2007
    East Texas
    Anybody have any ideas? Was I totally wrong? I hope not. I would like to get some in the future and use this method to increase their numbers and strengthen the breed.
     
  3. Wolf-Kim

    Wolf-Kim Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jan 25, 2008
    [​IMG]

    Sorry I couldn't help. I only have the Mottled. You could try contacting other breeders of the White Java to see if they had the same issue.

    It is hard to find advice or info on Javas.

    -Kim
     
  4. wclawrence

    wclawrence Chillin' With My Peeps

    Javas are Recessive white? IF that is so, just breed the white to black, then either back to white, or back to siblings. If Dominant white, then they are on E (extended black) so all you have to do is breed white to black and your first generation will come white, you breed from there.
     
  5. Chickndaddy

    Chickndaddy Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jul 26, 2007
    East Texas
    I only assumed Javas were recessive white because of how rare they are. If anyone has any information where is says they are or aren't I would love to see it. [​IMG] So, my thought would work if they were recessive white. If they were dominant white then after one cross I would get white offspring that would breed true?
     
  6. Chickndaddy

    Chickndaddy Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jul 26, 2007
    East Texas
    Okay...I remembered reading this, and with some of the gene gurus on here, I was wondering if this would be possible. I found two different articles from the Garfield Farm Museum stating that they hoped to be able to breed the Blue Java back from the greyish-blue chicks that are feathering out white. To me I don't think this is possible without introducing a blue bird into their black line. What do you guys think?

    http://www.motherearthnews.com/Sust...Java-Chickens-Back-From-the-Brink.aspx?page=2

    http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Java/JavaHomestead.html

    And I must say how annoyed I am that when I went to view Feathersite's page on Javas it isn't loading correctly. It is just showing the first pic of the Mottled rooster.
     
  7. Guitartists

    Guitartists Resistance is futile

    Mar 21, 2008
    Michigan
    Blue has to come from somewhere.... possibly, somewhere in their genetic makeup the gene has changed?? I saw this thing once on a show about the Dog and how these foxes started developing spots and new colors after being domesticated....... I would have NEVER guessed it possible... but there it was.

    I'm still struggling to understand this whole genetics thing, but based just on that article I would assume you are right about the white. Maybe there was a linked trait to the white that was causing the weakness and slow growth. Like white dogs and deafness.

    I imagine you could find the author today and ask if they ever did manage to breed any blues from those chicks in the article [​IMG]

    I have some blacks that are feathering out more mottled than black as chicks.... I am beginning to wonder if through selective breeding I might bring out the mottled gene from hiding [​IMG]
     
  8. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jul 19, 2008
    Missouri
    Quote:The chicks that are feathering out white are recessive white. The recessive white is masking other genes that can not be expressed. The birds actually could be blue under the white. If your cross a white bird to a black bird and the white bird is masking the blue gene then some of the offspring will be blue. They are picking the grayish chicks because grayish recessive white chicks are usually, but not always, extended black or blue under the white.

    Guitartists has a good point about the recessive white being linked to a lethal gene. Inbreeding usual shows up as low fertility and eggs that do not hatch. If it was a inbreeding problem it would also show up in your other stock.

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2008

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