Antibiotic restrictions January 1, 2017 (USA)

[JanetMarie]

JanetMarie- what s the brand name of the fish anti biotic that you mentioned? I want to write it in my chicken journal should ever I need it.

The one I used was from a local feed store, and didn't have a brand name, and no information on the bottle at all of where it was made. That is not my first choice, but I needed it that day. It did work very well though.

I would recommend Fish Mox, Fish Cillin, Fish Pen, or any of the others made by US manufacturer, Thomas Labs, that you can find a supplier by doing a web search on fish antibiotics.

 

[aart]

Quote:

Antibiotic for fish will not be affected. Use for chickens at your descretion. Amoxicillin is a broad spectrum antibiotic that can be purchased as a fish antibiotic.

Quote:

JanetMarie- what s the brand name of the fish anti biotic that you mentioned? I want to write it in my chicken journal should ever I need it.

Everyone else- I was at TSC yesterday to pick up a dewormer (more about that on a different thread) and they posted a note stating the the Strike 3 (hygromyacin B)chicken dewormer (pellet size mixed in with feed) falls under this category and will no longer be offered and was on reduced price for quick sale.

.....and thus the uninformed use of antibiotics will not be stopped by any regulations. SMH.

 

[spiritbrook]

Even in bulk I would suspect fish products to be way too expensive to use. First they are closer to the pure chemical, not cut with a filler so they would be more evenly distributed in the feed. They would need to calculate the amount to mix then make sure it has been thoroughly mixed through. Some might be doing this but most probably use the prepared product. Remember that we are talking about operations that can be many thousand chickens.

 

[aart]

Even in bulk I would suspect fish products to be way too expensive to use. First they are closer to the pure chemical, not cut with a filler so they would be more evenly distributed in the feed. They would need to calculate the amount to mix then make sure it has been thoroughly mixed through. Some might be doing this but most probably use the prepared product. Remember that we are talking about operations that can be many thousand chickens.

Backyarders will likely be using them tho....probably without much thought on dosage calculations.

 

[dheltzel]

.....and thus the uninformed use of antibiotics will not be stopped by any regulations. SMH.

Exactly right. The large producers will not be slowed by this at all. They have a vet on staff (or retainer) that is financially motivated to help them still use the antibiotics if they wish to. How hard would it be to find a symptomatic bird among the thousands in a commercial flock. They pull dozens of dead birds every day, take a few to the vet for necropsy whenever the last prescription is about to run out.

OTOH, this might mean that feed stores will now sell turkey starter crumbles without antibiotics added. I was told I had to buy a ton at a time to get it formulated without antibiotics. The salesman also told me I was crazy, that turkey poults are very fragile and will always die without the added antibiotics. I suppose then that Thanksgiving 2017 will be turkey-less if they can't find a way around this prohibition. (that is in jest, I raised a lot of turkeys without any antibiotics and never lost even one except to hatching deformities (and not many of them)

So, while I am hugely in favor of the intent of this change, my suspicious nature is that I expect they will find antibiotics not on the list to use or some other way around this so the big producers can still overcrowd and otherwise abuse their animals. If they have to improve conditions to cut their losses without antibiotics they will need to raise prices and allow for the possibility of smaller producers being able to compete with them - you know they can't have that.

Sorry if I sound bitter, I hate that big agribusiness is corrupting everything in the name of higher profits.

 

[aart]

What is the 'medication' in the turkey starter that you object too?
I know medicated chick starter has amprolium ...which is not an antibiotic but an anti protozoan to help protect against coccidiosis.

 

[dheltzel]

What is the 'medication' in the turkey starter that you object too?
I know medicated chick starter has amprolium ...which is not an antibiotic but an anti protozoan to help protect against coccidiosis.

Yup, Amprolium is not an antibiotic and I don't object to it at all, in fact it is added to the chick starter I buy. The "turkey starter" has a much higher protein (26% vs 20%) but is only available with true antibiotics (from my feed mill). To quote "We just had to recently change our Turkey starter medication. We used to combine amprol and bacitran, but due to law changes, we switched to avatec and bacitracin which will do the same thing"

Weird that the law change made them switch from Amprol to a real antibiotic (Avatec). I would not be surprised to find that both the new ones they mentioned are not included in the 2017 change, but they are clearly antibiotic in their action, unlike Amprol. I ended up starting turkeys on 20% starter and switching them to 22% pellets once they are big enough to eat the pellets. I had a lot of success with that, though some people will fault me for feeding to low a protein. This same regime works for me for guineas also. Perhaps they grow slower, but that it not a huge concern for me, I'm not raising them on a schedule for butchering.

If the feed mill starts selling higher protein starter that is free of antibiotics, I will probably buy some, but more importantly, it will help the birds others feed with that to not be all "hopped up" on antibiotics.

 

[rebrascora]

It is easy to say that agribusiness corrupts...but it would appear that it is just human nature. It's just that we object to it when it is on a large scale where bigger money/profits are involved.

There are already people posting on this thread that are showing similar tendency to "corrupt" by using fish feed/medicine rather than go to a vet, as the new legislation is intending.....surely that is the same thing?....people thwarting the legislation for their own purposes/financial gain/ or perhaps more accurately, to prevent financial loss via a vet's bill.

The important thing is that this legislation is surely a step in the right direction and it's no good thinking that, as back yard chicken owners, you should be exempt from it because you just have one or two chickens. The problem is that people misuse antibiotics both in big business and small scale situations and resistance is developing to them, so it needs to be reined in somehow before we cause more superbugs to develop.

 

[aart]

Quote: That is strange......it would make me suspect everything they do and say.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Avatec is a coccidiosidal (whatever that is) that contains lasalocid as the active ingredient. Lasalocid is poisonous to dogs and horses. It is an antibacterial. I don’t know if that makes it an antibiotic or not.

I’m going to quit researching this while I’m behind. But I’ll dig my hole deeper by giving my thoughts.

Some people and some businesses (big or small) are going to try to get around any law, either looking for a legal loophole or just defying the law and being criminals. To me just because some people can get around a law or are willing to break it doesn’t mean we should stop trying.

As a registered professional engineer I had to follow a certain code of ethics or risk getting my license revoked. In some cases I could have even been sued. Veterinarians and other licensed professionals face the same thing. I knew some registered engineers that were willing to skirt the requirements but I also knew a lot that knew what the requirements were and tried to follow them. Whether you are dealing with individuals or companies, you are dealing with human beings. The company I worked for, a big oil company, kept pounding into us to follow the law. You risked your job by breaking a law, but there were still some individuals that would risk it for their own reasons.

Will this change stop 100% of all abuse, of course not. But it helps show where the acceptable line is. I think it is as step in the right direction without going too far.