Antibiotics will soon require vet prescription

[duluthralphie]

You're avoiding the point. Vaccinations do not stop a bird from contracting the disease.
What some vaccines may do is reduce the risk of full blown terminal Mareks.
The birds are still carriers and can still pass the disease on to others.

You are wrong, 100%..

the vaccine does prevent them from contracting the disease. It does not prevent them from coming in contact with the disease.

 

[Shadrach]

You are wrong, 100%..

the vaccine does prevent them from contracting the disease. It does not prevent them from coming in contact with the disease.

No I don't think I am.
A lot will depend on how one defines contracting the disease. What I am saying is the birds while not showing any symptoms will be carriers.
In order to give full coverage to all six to date identified stains of Mareks one would need to give six separate vaccines.

 

[duluthralphie]

No I don't think I am.
A lot will depend on how one defines contracting the disease. What I am saying is the birds while not showing any symptoms will be carriers.
In order to give full coverage to all six to date identified stains of Mareks one would need to give six separate vaccines.

They would not need 6 vaccines. They are so closely related as to be nearly indistinguishable from each other.
As stated before the vaccine is a turkey virus yet it works to prevent Mareks.

The vaccine prevents them from getting Mareks hence contrary to your opinion they are not carriers.


I have had a polio vaccine multiple times, my Dad had polio when I was an infant so I was exposed to the virus...

Am I a polio carrier in your smoke filled world?

 

[roosterhavoc]

The mareks vaccines do not prevent infection or transmission of the disease. They do sometimes prevent the onset of the disease.

so much misinformation being thrown around here.

 

[roosterhavoc]

It’s widely assumed that all chickens have or will be exposed to mareks disease. Why do some birds not show symptoms while others are paralyzed in less than a week? If you were to cull every bird that showed signs and only breed the birds that showed zero symptoms the theory would be over time (possibly many years) the particular flock could become resistant or at least resistant to showing symptoms. Whether they’re carriers or not is not easy to identify but what really matters is the disease doesn’t hinder them in any way.

 

[Shadrach]

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/neoplasms/marek-disease-in-poultry
We have three types of vaccine available here.

From the above article.
Dust or dander from infected chickens is particularly effective in transmission. Once the virus is introduced into a chicken flock, regardless of vaccination status, infection spreads quickly from bird to bird. Infected chickens continue to be carriers for long periods and act as sources of infectiou

There's lots more in various study papers.
In essence, if Mareks has been identified in your flock the assumption here where I live is that all the flock and any previously free of the virus birds introduced will be carriers.

 

[duluthralphie]

The mareks vaccines do not prevent infection or transmission of the disease. They do sometimes prevent the onset of the disease.

so much misinformation being thrown around here.

medicines never work.. I got it.,

let’s happily return to the enlightened Middle Ages.

I have never seen the vaccine not work.

I know my observation is anecdotal, however I have vaccinated thousands without one incident of Mareks showing itself.

Whether a chicken is a carrier or not after being vaccinated is immaterial, has the wind, wild birds, humans or rodents will carry it.

If you free range or pasture your birds they have it or will get it in this area.

I am Mareks free. I have not had an incident in years. That does not mean I will stop vaccinating for it.

 

[microchick]

Actually the assumption is that Marek's infected dander can travel up to 5 miles on the wind. If you start using a compass and drawing circles around your property using your property as ground zero, you can see the potential for spread over long distances.

In the case of my flock I bought chicks from a breeder (reputable) who assured me that their birds were bred for resistance to Marek's and I need not worry about vaccinating them.

100% of the birds survived the initial infection. I practice good biosecurity but exposure to wild birds is unavoidable as I live in a spring migration flight path and birds are flying over day and night in the spring. So I have no idea where this strain of the virus came from. While all birds survived. I began having problems with my cockerels that were not identifiable as Marek's disease. As I said, one beautiful Buff O rooster fell mysteriously ill. Lost weight, lethargic, pale comb and waddles...died. We tried everything we could think of to save him but he was terminal. Another cockerel had problems with a leg joint but since he had been fighting with other roosters I figured he had injured himself. Before things calmed down I had lost every rooster I owned, one at a time, I lost half of my laying hens to early death and I lost 98% of the chicks at less than one year of age that the 'resistant birds had hatched. A flock of 38 birds was reduced to 8 hens and a lone rooster and the rooster died this past spring.

Resistance is a big tease. It sounds good but it tricks you into a state of false complacency. Plus, I was basically starting as a newby to raising chickens as the last flock I had was over 50 years prior.

I have no way of knowing where the virus came from but my birds exhibited every type of Marek's known to man. Ocular, visceral and neural varieties. I had a beautiful and gentle Welsummer rooster decline and have to be put down in less than a week from tumors that suddenly appeared in his throat near his head.

The whole experience was and is heartbreaking.

My only success has been buying hatching eggs from a local Amish farmer and hatching them in my incubator away from the carrier birds. This birds, it took me a year to get a line established, not allowing them to cross breed with the original birds, have proven to be truly resistant. Plus what birds I have brought into the flock have been vaccinated and include OEGBs and Egyptian Fayoumis. I have lost a few birds the the key word is FEW. Not another 2/3rds of my flock.

What this tells me is that this strain of virus is regional and virulent and that the local birds bred and raised here are resistant. How resistant they are I don't know but what I have noticed is that if I lose birds it is somewhere around 4 years of age. And only one has shown outwards signs of Marek's disease.

Marek's is an insidious disease. Indiscriminate, ruthless and devastatingly brutal to the small flock owner. When I talked to the Mizzou Vet, I asked him about culling my whole flock and he told me not to. Unnecessary as the surviving birds will be truly resistant.

And yes, I have surviving resistant birds and from them I have built up a flock of about 38 birds that I enjoy very much.

The advice people who have never experienced the disease in their flocks give concerning Marek's disease and what Sally, George or Fred should do with their flocks is worth exactly what you pay for it. Nothing.

Until you have walked in my shoes, you will not understand that a small hold chicken flock keeper will do whatever they need to do to see their birds survive as long as they can, and yes, use antibiotics and anti-parasite drugs on their sick birds on the chance that just maybe the bird will recover and live so I can enjoy seeing them scratch around in the dirt and act like chickens a little longer before they are gone.

As for Marek's disease...once that Genie is out of the bottle nothing on this earth can stuff it back in again.

 

[duluthralphie]

Actually the assumption is that Marek's infected dander can travel up to 5 miles on the wind. If you start using a compass and drawing circles around your property using your property as ground zero, you can see the potential for spread over long distances.

In the case of my flock I bought chicks from a breeder (reputable) who assured me that their birds were bred for resistance to Marek's and I need not worry about vaccinating them.

100% of the birds survived the initial infection. I practice good biosecurity but exposure to wild birds is unavoidable as I live in a spring migration flight path and birds are flying over day and night in the spring. So I have no idea where this strain of the virus came from. While all birds survived. I began having problems with my cockerels that were not identifiable as Marek's disease. As I said, one beautiful Buff O rooster fell mysteriously ill. Lost weight, lethargic, pale comb and waddles...died. We tried everything we could think of to save him but he was terminal. Another cockerel had problems with a leg joint but since he had been fighting with other roosters I figured he had injured himself. Before things calmed down I had lost every rooster I owned, one at a time, I lost half of my laying hens to early death and I lost 98% of the chicks at less than one year of age that the 'resistant birds had hatched. A flock of 38 birds was reduced to 8 hens and a lone rooster and the rooster died this past spring.

Resistance is a big tease. It sounds good but it tricks you into a state of false complacency. Plus, I was basically starting as a newby to raising chickens as the last flock I had was over 50 years prior.

I have no way of knowing where the virus came from but my birds exhibited every type of Marek's known to man. Ocular, visceral and neural varieties. I had a beautiful and gentle Welsummer rooster decline and have to be put down in less than a week from tumors that suddenly appeared in his throat near his head.

The whole experience was and is heartbreaking.

My only success has been buying hatching eggs from a local Amish farmer and hatching them in my incubator away from the carrier birds. This birds, it took me a year to get a line established, not allowing them to cross breed with the original birds, have proven to be truly resistant. Plus what birds I have brought into the flock have been vaccinated and include OEGBs and Egyptian Fayoumis. I have lost a few birds the the key word is FEW. Not another 2/3rds of my flock.

What this tells me is that this strain of virus is regional and virulent and that the local birds bred and raised here are resistant. How resistant they are I don't know but what I have noticed is that if I lose birds it is somewhere around 4 years of age. And only one has shown outwards signs of Marek's disease.

Marek's is an insidious disease. Indiscriminate, ruthless and devastatingly brutal to the small flock owner. When I talked to the Mizzou Vet, I asked him about culling my whole flock and he told me not to. Unnecessary as the surviving birds will be truly resistant.

And yes, I have surviving resistant birds and from them I have built up a flock of about 38 birds that I enjoy very much.

The advice people who have never experienced the disease in their flocks give concerning Marek's disease and what Sally, George or Fred should do with their flocks is worth exactly what you pay for it. Nothing.

Until you have walked in my shoes, you will not understand that a small hold chicken flock keeper will do whatever they need to do to see their birds survive as long as they can, and yes, use antibiotics and anti-parasite drugs on their sick birds on the chance that just maybe the bird will recover and live so I can enjoy seeing them scratch around in the dirt and act like chickens a little longer before they are gone.

As for Marek's disease...once that Genie is out of the bottle nothing on this earth can stuff it back in again.

Much more elegantly said than I could. Thank you..


Btw I spent 3 hours waiting for Bambi to stop laughing at me and step out of the swamp.. Bambi is still laughing

 

[roosterhavoc]

I think a lot depends on the health of the birds. If you start with strong genes and don’t pick favorites because of a certain color or demeanor then it might work out a little better. I can only imagine just how inbred some of the birds are. With severe inbreeding comes weakened immune systems which leaves them wide open for all kinds of problems.