Anyone in the US have the Sepia Muscovy gene?

[iajewel]

Just forget about bronze and sepia.. they are not even living on the same block.. so undo that link in your brain.. they are not in any way related.

 

[Schaman]

iajewel:

I think you have a little wrong there. Am personally convinced that the bronze in Australia are genetically sepia / faiogeno basically. The few differences that are sometimes seen is probably due to the involvement of atipico / dusky. Sepia / Faiogeno gene is well described by A. Taibel year 1961. But why are they so rare and very scattered parts of the world?

Is very curious about where your coming from and if there are more of the same type in your country ...?

The picture you posted in the thread is one of my previous sepia females and today there are new ones that are even better.

 

[Schaman]

iajewel:

This thing of skin, I have never heard of nor Taibel have mentioned something about this.

Develop what you intend and the source of such information....please

Ian: Wow

 

[iajewel]

Sepia, faiogeno f Recessive. A dilutor of both red and black pigment. Influences skin color. The cuckling is khaki-colored with pink beak and yellow feet. Adults are sepia with beetle-green sheen. There is much variation in the coloration of adults. This gene is thought to be rare in North America.

http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page6.html

This is a quick link

 

[Schaman]

Quote:
Compare with the original text in Poultry breeding and Genetics (page 392)

http://books.google.se/books?id=VMSF7m2CFTEC&lpg=PP1&hl=sv&pg=PA392#v=onepage&q=muscovy&f=false

Nothing about the skin there...

I have worked with sepia gene in a few years now and never noticed anything special about the skin in adults. Possibly then sepia ducklings has a dark tone in the skin(under the light yellow and greenish aura) when they are small and khaki colored.

Have also had dialogue with knowledgeable breeders in Australia and we are fairly agreed that Sepia / Faiogeno and bronze have the same genetic base. Furthermore, we get the same results if we mix sepia / bronze with blue, and get so-called Fumo's or Tortoras.

 

[Schaman]

Looked a bit more of your great photos and get a little unsure if the light is really a "Tortora" but it is a lot like a female that I have. Are you sure that you have the sepia gene or is it something else?

Eye color?

Do you have any photos of own sepia colored muscovy ducks or khaki colored ducklings?
Would be very interesting to compare images...

 

[ian4379]

my thoughts are the same as schaman, i'd like to see photographic proof of the khaki skin colour of a sepia. my bronzes here have the same yellow skin colour as any other colour muscovy.

regarding leg colour i have bronzes with bronze tinted legs and yellow skin.

 

[Schaman]

The sepia ducklings have some darker effects in skin but not anything special when they are grown.

(Wildtype no atipico/dusky involved)

There are also an picture on sepia ducklings and Fumo duckling at feathersite´s muscovy section. Very nice pictures

 

[iajewel]

One of the misconceptions here in the US could come from the fact no one in the US has seen one.. so.. they could assume things that are not true... this is my only explanation for the large differences in the writings. Me, I haven't seen or worked with any, so I have to go by what I read.

As for the bronze and Sepia being the same gene, The colors seem very different, however it is possible for 2 genes to act the same.

ex, you get the same result when you cross them with blues. However to the eye what is real and if you type them, what is real can change. Just because you don't see genes doesn't mean they aren't there. I have seen bronze we do have those in the US and I have seen photos of sepia, to me they are very different in appearance, however it does't amaze me that 3 genes would act the same in the blue mating.
Im not saying your statement is un true.. Im asking if you can prove it genetically? There are geneisist that have spent allot of time proving they are not the same. Have you blood typed or DNA typed some of both groups? have you crossed them with all colors to see the results? Blue isn't enough to say.. its the same in all.

Your hen is lovely. I wish eggs lasted longer and we could swap some eggs.

 

[Schaman]

Quote:
Well, sepia copies varies of course much in appearance but also in the scientific literature descriptions.

Could it possibly be that bronze in the U.S. is of a different type than those called Bronze (sepia) in Australia?

Please describe how they lokking bronze in your country as I am curious?

Does not DNA tested my sepia but they are all descriptions well and are genetically pure as they should, autosomal recessive. My has been combined with blue and silver, and combinations is applies to Taibels descriptions. Unfortunately I can not intersections with other dilutions when we do not have either lavender or chocolate (recently very few, one breeder ..) in our country.

What is the geneticist who has tried to distinguish between sepia and bronze?

The female in the picture are not with me anymore but I have a lot of others instead. The female is / was also an offspring of black pied parents... carrying the sepia gene.