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Thank you OM, good to be back.
Thank you OM, good to be back.
Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!
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Wow, you all have been busy while I was away. I got something I want to throw in this pot.
an AGE lasts about 2000 years, give or take a few hundred. Because of Earth's wobble, the sun rises in a new "sign" on the spring equinox every 2000 (approx) years. It is called the precession of the equinoxes. About 4000 years ago, the new sign was Aries (Roman Empire), 2000 years later,(1 B.C.) the sun began rising in Pisces. Pisces in Astrology represents ultimate sacrifice, forgiveness, altered states of conscience, illusion, delusion, and many other things that I don't have room to explain. The opposite of Pisces, is Virgo the Virgin. The age of Man is the obvious sign based on the precession, but the age of WOMAN is the opposite sign. Hence, The Fisher of Men and his Virgin Mother. OK, I'm gonna stop here, but this gets much more interesting. Anybody know what I'm talking about?
an AGE lasts about 2000 years, give or take a few hundred. Because of Earth's wobble, the sun rises in a new "sign" on the spring equinox every 2000 (approx) years. It is called the precession of the equinoxes. About 4000 years ago, the new sign was Aries (Roman Empire), 2000 years later,(1 B.C.) the sun began rising in Pisces. Pisces in Astrology represents ultimate sacrifice, forgiveness, altered states of conscience, illusion, delusion, and many other things that I don't have room to explain. The opposite of Pisces, is Virgo the Virgin. The age of Man is the obvious sign based on the precession, but the age of WOMAN is the opposite sign. Hence, The Fisher of Men and his Virgin Mother. OK, I'm gonna stop here, but this gets much more interesting. Anybody know what I'm talking about?
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Not really but I'm listening. Astrology used to explain religion and empires?
I thought that the mother-son religions of the Middle East began more then 2,000 years ago and that Christianity was one of the later ones.
We are now in the age of Aquarius, are we not? Isn't that the age of individualism? What does that signify amongst the growth in material greed and lust for power over masses of people?
Religion, astrology, godless spiritualism, atheism, tarot, numerology, palmistry and other such things are all means by which people attempt to understand the origins and meaning of life. Not one of them has proof of its verity but any can be of help to a person. The only thing wrong with any of them is the common additional belief that, if a particular one helps you, it will help everyone. Perhaps Agnosticism is the only true faith because I can prove without any shadow of a doubt that no-one knows!
Not really but I'm listening. Astrology used to explain religion and empires?
I thought that the mother-son religions of the Middle East began more then 2,000 years ago and that Christianity was one of the later ones.
We are now in the age of Aquarius, are we not? Isn't that the age of individualism? What does that signify amongst the growth in material greed and lust for power over masses of people?
Religion, astrology, godless spiritualism, atheism, tarot, numerology, palmistry and other such things are all means by which people attempt to understand the origins and meaning of life. Not one of them has proof of its verity but any can be of help to a person. The only thing wrong with any of them is the common additional belief that, if a particular one helps you, it will help everyone. Perhaps Agnosticism is the only true faith because I can prove without any shadow of a doubt that no-one knows!
Okay, here are a couple of questions. These are just a few of the main questions that started me doing some major soul-searching and researching of my previous christian belief system. I hope I can pose this question sensibly, because it is one of those that is just hard for me to explain what I mean.
1) IF there is ONE God (the christian God - whom, by the way, I don't believe in) and this God created the universe and everything and every person in it - than how can not every person who ever existed not know about him? How are there still people alive on this planet today who do not know about this God? It just makes no sense to me that this God created all and is the ruler of all, yet this God was not and is not known about since the beginning of time (did that make any sense at all?)
2) IF there is ONE God who is all powerful, why can get rid of "Satan" (whom I also don't believe in) once and for all?
These 2 questions were big factors in my denouncing my previous christian beliefs. I had/have asked these questions many times and I have never had an answer that made any sense (most times, the question wasn't answered at all).
But probably the biggest reason I quit believing in the Christian God and the Bible, is after reading the Old Testament and reading how women were/are viewed as evil, dirty, and being viewed as less valuable than livestock, I just don't get why a woman would EVER subscribe to the Christian faith. And regardless of what anybody says, women are still viewed as second class citizens - the menfolk being the superior sex. Bullocks to that nonsense.
1) IF there is ONE God (the christian God - whom, by the way, I don't believe in) and this God created the universe and everything and every person in it - than how can not every person who ever existed not know about him? How are there still people alive on this planet today who do not know about this God? It just makes no sense to me that this God created all and is the ruler of all, yet this God was not and is not known about since the beginning of time (did that make any sense at all?)
2) IF there is ONE God who is all powerful, why can get rid of "Satan" (whom I also don't believe in) once and for all?
These 2 questions were big factors in my denouncing my previous christian beliefs. I had/have asked these questions many times and I have never had an answer that made any sense (most times, the question wasn't answered at all).
But probably the biggest reason I quit believing in the Christian God and the Bible, is after reading the Old Testament and reading how women were/are viewed as evil, dirty, and being viewed as less valuable than livestock, I just don't get why a woman would EVER subscribe to the Christian faith. And regardless of what anybody says, women are still viewed as second class citizens - the menfolk being the superior sex. Bullocks to that nonsense.
Moabite,
I read/saw something about this on Zitgeist. I can't remember exactly what it was now. I'll have to go back and watch it again.
I read/saw something about this on Zitgeist. I can't remember exactly what it was now. I'll have to go back and watch it again.
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Bullocks indeed!
In fact women are inferior to men in some ways - and men are inferior to women in others. I prefer to take the view that men and women are made physically and emotionally different because they have different roles to play in the continuation of the species. After seeing a female Italian tennis player in action the other evening I rejoice in the survival of those ancient functions that don't require women to have strong calves and biceps and a masculine gait.
I still have to reverse the truck into a parking space for my wife, though!
Regarding your two questions, I think that it's remarkable how many ancient civilisations who seem to have had no knowledge of one another held such similar religious beliefs. They were aware of the importance of the sun, water, fire and earth to their survival. They had an amazing grasp of astronomy, the seasons and the influence of the universe on their lives. Perhaps understandably, they worshipped those vital things or personifications of them and created simple explanations so that it could all be understood by illiterate and uneducated people. Imagine how intelligent must have been the people who discovered all of that early knowledge.
Present day religions are similar to those ancient ones in many ways and to each other. They seem to be much simpler in concept, though. Out goes the mulititude of gods and in comes one that is all powerful, other than for a fallen subordinate who just won't go away. The holy trinity was never clear to me though, much as I tried to understand the vicar's explanations. Often in the ancient religions womankind was revered as the greater of the two sexes and that still survives in certain cultures, if not religions, today. I wonder why women were downgraded to secondary human beings. Modern religions still have their human sacrifices - martyrs, suicide bombers, people who give up their individuality to accept what others tell them, military people who go off with the words 'god on our side' ringing in their ears for example.
I'm always willing to listen in the hope of learning. However, ancient books that have been translated by people with their own agendas and perceptions are not enough. Similarly any preacher or evangelist is as riddled with human failings as myself. I know myself better than I know them so I keep on believing myself unless their words ring the Truth bell in my subconscious. I find that the bell tolls more often when I quietly listen to myself and no-one can deny me either the right or the opportunity to do that in peace.
Bullocks indeed!
Regarding your two questions, I think that it's remarkable how many ancient civilisations who seem to have had no knowledge of one another held such similar religious beliefs. They were aware of the importance of the sun, water, fire and earth to their survival. They had an amazing grasp of astronomy, the seasons and the influence of the universe on their lives. Perhaps understandably, they worshipped those vital things or personifications of them and created simple explanations so that it could all be understood by illiterate and uneducated people. Imagine how intelligent must have been the people who discovered all of that early knowledge.
Present day religions are similar to those ancient ones in many ways and to each other. They seem to be much simpler in concept, though. Out goes the mulititude of gods and in comes one that is all powerful, other than for a fallen subordinate who just won't go away. The holy trinity was never clear to me though, much as I tried to understand the vicar's explanations. Often in the ancient religions womankind was revered as the greater of the two sexes and that still survives in certain cultures, if not religions, today. I wonder why women were downgraded to secondary human beings. Modern religions still have their human sacrifices - martyrs, suicide bombers, people who give up their individuality to accept what others tell them, military people who go off with the words 'god on our side' ringing in their ears for example.
I'm always willing to listen in the hope of learning. However, ancient books that have been translated by people with their own agendas and perceptions are not enough. Similarly any preacher or evangelist is as riddled with human failings as myself. I know myself better than I know them so I keep on believing myself unless their words ring the Truth bell in my subconscious. I find that the bell tolls more often when I quietly listen to myself and no-one can deny me either the right or the opportunity to do that in peace.
military people who go off with the words 'god on our side' ringing in their ears for example.
As a "military person" who served for most of my adult life, I can tell you from personal experience that most of us do not serve for any kind of religious reasons. We love our country and want to protect it. That's all. Many "career" types might add that each person has a special talent--art, law, music, invention, etc. Soldiers happen to have the "gift" of physical strength and mental hardness, which makes us well-adapted for military life. The average person doesn't usually have that "mental hardness" it takes to want to make the military a career. I personally did not know guys who were in for "god", if you will. We do not think of ourselves as "human sacrifices", more like protectors of our fellow countrymen.
FWIW
Rusty
As a "military person" who served for most of my adult life, I can tell you from personal experience that most of us do not serve for any kind of religious reasons. We love our country and want to protect it. That's all. Many "career" types might add that each person has a special talent--art, law, music, invention, etc. Soldiers happen to have the "gift" of physical strength and mental hardness, which makes us well-adapted for military life. The average person doesn't usually have that "mental hardness" it takes to want to make the military a career. I personally did not know guys who were in for "god", if you will. We do not think of ourselves as "human sacrifices", more like protectors of our fellow countrymen.
FWIW
Rusty
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I dont know if you've ever seen the documentary called The Star of Bethlehem. Its wild to see what was going on in the sky throught history. For my it was mindblowing. Its on Dvd
I dont know if you've ever seen the documentary called The Star of Bethlehem. Its wild to see what was going on in the sky throught history. For my it was mindblowing. Its on Dvd
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1.) I believe its possible because in the very beginning with cain and able . Cain was sentenced to wander the earth alone without God. So throught time it would be like God who? There are still remote villages throughout the world. Again with Isaac and Ismeal. if a person doenst believe in God they are not going to teach their children.
2.) There is a time appointed to be rid of Satan, we are not there yet. If you were to believe in God you would know that he is the alpha and the omega. To be the omega he would have to be there.
God could make anything. But because, I believe, he loves us so much we have free will and choice. I wouldnt make someone love me, Its much better if they choose to love me.
1.) I believe its possible because in the very beginning with cain and able . Cain was sentenced to wander the earth alone without God. So throught time it would be like God who? There are still remote villages throughout the world. Again with Isaac and Ismeal. if a person doenst believe in God they are not going to teach their children.
2.) There is a time appointed to be rid of Satan, we are not there yet. If you were to believe in God you would know that he is the alpha and the omega. To be the omega he would have to be there.
God could make anything. But because, I believe, he loves us so much we have free will and choice. I wouldnt make someone love me, Its much better if they choose to love me.
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As a "military person" who served for most of my adult life, I can tell you from personal experience that most of us do not serve for any kind of religious reasons. We love our country and want to protect it. That's all. Many "career" types might add that each person has a special talent--art, law, music, invention, etc. Soldiers happen to have the "gift" of physical strength and mental hardness, which makes us well-adapted for military life. The average person doesn't usually have that "mental hardness" it takes to want to make the military a career. I personally did not know guys who were in for "god", if you will. We do not think of ourselves as "human sacrifices", more like protectors of our fellow countrymen.
FWIW
Rusty
I didn't mean any offence to any individual military person and I apologise if it came across to you like that. I didn't intend to suggest that any military person acted for religious reasons either, 'though I suppose some might. My meaning was that the people who send them, politicians with their own motives mainly, will use religion as a justification when there is insufficient other reason to go to war. The voices ringing in the ears of the military people are those claiming some religious purpose that, in reality is not valid and may not even be sincere. In those hypocritical circumstances, I see the ones that don't return as sacrifices on someone else's altar.
As a "military person" who served for most of my adult life, I can tell you from personal experience that most of us do not serve for any kind of religious reasons. We love our country and want to protect it. That's all. Many "career" types might add that each person has a special talent--art, law, music, invention, etc. Soldiers happen to have the "gift" of physical strength and mental hardness, which makes us well-adapted for military life. The average person doesn't usually have that "mental hardness" it takes to want to make the military a career. I personally did not know guys who were in for "god", if you will. We do not think of ourselves as "human sacrifices", more like protectors of our fellow countrymen.
FWIW
Rusty
I didn't mean any offence to any individual military person and I apologise if it came across to you like that. I didn't intend to suggest that any military person acted for religious reasons either, 'though I suppose some might. My meaning was that the people who send them, politicians with their own motives mainly, will use religion as a justification when there is insufficient other reason to go to war. The voices ringing in the ears of the military people are those claiming some religious purpose that, in reality is not valid and may not even be sincere. In those hypocritical circumstances, I see the ones that don't return as sacrifices on someone else's altar.
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