Anyone non-religious here? Please be nice!

[ultasol]

Morality and spirituality are not the same. To be moral one is not required to be religious.

Think about all of the traits you would expect of a moral person- loving Jesus or accepting god is not a required one.

When I think of a moral person I think of:
honesty
trust
friendship
love
kind generous
gentle
accepting


I had a missionary of a faith I will not disclose come to my door today asking to come in or to make an appointment to come back. I told them politely, "Thank you but I am not interested." One turned to go, the other stopped me from closing the door and got pushy- I was told I was not of the true faith.

To me this action is not that of a moral person, who would accept my choice and right to exercise free will, even though the person may be making what, in their mind is a moral decision (trying to save me from hellfire and damnation).

This example illustrates clearly that the definition of morality or what is moral can vary from person to person, with each individual firmly believing they are in the right.

I normally refuse to discuss religion because some normally wonderful, gentle people I know can be rather forceful when it comes to discussing faith as their religious beliefs are so strong that it precludes all else in terms of importance, whereas I don't care what an individual worships as long as it does not involve harming or removing the rights of others.

 

[chicken_china_mom]

Personally I have waged my own battles with my spirituality for more years than I care to think about. I was raised in a Catholic family, went to Catholic school til 5th grade when we moved to the suburbs, and then I still attended church every Sunday with my grandmother. My mother obviously was also raised Catholic and got a lot of flack for having me out of wedlock (my own great-grandmother spent many afternoons telling me I was worthless and, well, go look up the word in the dictionary that means child born out of wedlock. Begins with a B. She called me that quite often), but she isn't devout, and never really agreed with Catholic doctrine, though she never tried to force me to believe what she believed. So religiously, I was influenced more by my grandmother than my mother. But as I approached my teens, I began to form my own opinions on many things, religion being one of them. When I was 21 I finally went through with my confirmation, mostly to please my grandmother and my aunt, but it wasn't really in my heart. Shortly after I did, I had an experience that, well, it's hard to describe how it affected me. My neighbor and good family friend was pregnant with twins, her 4th and 5th babies, and she was excited because she was having twin girls. Well, she lost one about 4 months in, and then in her 6th month she went into labor and delivered the other little girl prematurely. The baby lived about 3 days before she died. When my neighbor approached the head priest at our church to ask him if he would perform the funeral, he actually turned and asked her if the baby had been baptized at the church. When she said no, that the baby had only been alive a few days and had never left the hospital, he refused to do it! Said unless she was baptized AT THE CHURCH, where of course the church could make their money, he wouldn't do it! To say I was disgusted with that particular priest, and also with that church is an understatement. I walked away from the church for awhile, but found myself returning when I had my own babies and I felt the need for spiritual guidance and guidance for my children, but even though I attended that church for 22 years, I never felt like a real member. I didn't know most of the congregation, I didn't know who was sitting next to me at church most of the time, and I didn't attend any church functions because I was never notified before hand that there would be any. And so I felt alienated the whole time. Plus, the more time that passed, the more I realized that my beliefs were not the same as the church's. And that bothered me. And so I went on yet another spirtitual quest. I went on one in my mid teens and attended a baptist church and an evangelical church, but wasn't getting the answers I wanted. In 2008 we moved out to the country, and one of the first things I did was pick up a phonebook and look up churches. I debated briefly whether or not I wanted to try the Catholic church, but I knew in my heart that I wouldn't be happy there, so I passed it over. There is a single church in my little bitty town, a nice little Christian church, and so I thought I would give it a try, if only to be closer to God. I've been attending the church for almost 2 years now, but I can't say that I am finding the spiritual answers, or the peace that I have been seeking for so long. I sometimes feel that my personal beliefs are so different from other peoples' that I will be shunned, or have people pick horrible religious debated with me in vain attempts to prove that my beliefs are wrong. See, I believe strongly in God. I believe he sent his son Jesus as as a teacher and prophet to try to get us to turn ourselves around and do good by one another, and do good by God, and that he died for our sins. But after that, my views tend to differ from that of most Christians. My mother believes that the Bible was written by men, and that it was written primarily to influence others to believe what they believed at that time, not to actually spread the word of God. As time has passed I tend to agree with my mother. Especially as I read the Bible and study it more. And I no longer look favorably on the Catholic religion. I believe that they are more concerned with power and money than they are with spreading the word of God. I believe that God can be worshipped anywhere, at anytime, not just under the roof of a building called a church. I believe we ARE the church, each and every one of us. I'm limited pro-choice, I'm not married yet I have two kids, and I don't believe Satan is a big scary half man/half monster with horns and hoofed feet that will come at the end of time to swallow up the sinners. I tend to think that if God had these beautiful angels, and Lucifer was the most beautiful of them all, then why would he suddenly become ugly just because he ticked his father off? I just don't think he would. I find flaw with the Bible, and with the doctrine of any religion that claims to want peace, yet does nothing but start wars. However, I do not degrade anyone else's beliefs. I am capable of having religious discussions without becoming angry or trying to shove my own beliefs down other people's throats. I hate when people do that to me, so why would I do it to others? Oh, and the part that I find the most confusing, and that I am never able to talk about with other "Christians" is that since I was a little girl, I have experienced many psychic phenomena that would basically classify me as psychically gifted. However, that is not something Christians seem to believe in (yet I believe that most of the old world prophets and healers were just that, psychics, Jesus included). I have friends that I absolutely cannot talk religion with, no matter what, and others that I can speak freely with, but mostly because they either aren't spiritual at all, or consider themselves to be of what is referred to as "Pagan" religions. I considered the Pagan religions too, like Wiccan, but truth be told, my heart tells me God is real, and Jesus is real, and I can't deny them. And so I feel lost, like the one piece of the puzzle that just doesn't fit right. I pray, I ask God for guidance, but at the same time I can predict things, I can see things, and I disagree with most church doctrines, so where does that leave me? Basically without a real religion, but spiritual nonetheless. Just wanted to share my views. Even though this isn't even half of them, lol! Just sort of like the basics. I haven't really met anyone else with my beliefs. Would be nice if I did, I'd like to know another kindred spirit out there.

 

[thaiturkey]

mom'sfolly :

I have a question for the group. What morals, or ethical considerations do you consider the most important? I have been told that I can't be a moral person without religion; a statement that I find beyond absurd. What do you think?

You have been fed a bit of control freak propaganda. 'If you ain't in my gang you ain't no good'.

I think that the whole matter of ethics and morals can be summed up in the sentence 'Do unto others what you would have them do unto you'. I think that comes from the New Testament and turns on its head the Old Testament rule of ' an eye for an eye' which I think one faith still follows. It means that if what you may be about to do is something you wouldn't want done to yourself you probably shouldn't be doing it. It has nothing to do with religion because anyone can live to that simple code.

The rule needs to be seen in the context of the society in which we live. After all, ethics and morals, whether within a religious framework or not, are about fitting in harmoniously with our particular society. What may be moral in one society may not be in another. And that may be why missionaries in Africa had such a hard time staying out of the cooking pot!

 

[incubatingisfun]

i am non-religiuos i have quit a few religious friends though

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
A great post that sums up much of my own feelings. Thank you.

If you have psychic gifts, are you not looking to develop them? Meet the right people and you may well find a path that suits you spiritually. You still need to be wary of organisations that would subjugate your individuality and charlatans that seek power or money, of course. You can follow your own quiet path with meditation and healing. No need to tell fortunes unless that's your thing!

Christianity does acknowledge psychic skill, by the way, to the extent that some churches persecuted those with the gift and probably still do. The C of E recognises also the ability to communicate with those who have passed on because it angrily condemns efforts to 'wake them'. Some priests offer exorcism services. When people develop their individual skills and beliefs, the power hungry controllers panic. I wonder whether the churches' attitude is a sign that there is an after life or that there isn't and the scam would be revealed if we made our own enquiries.

 

[chicken_china_mom]

Quote:
A great post that sums up much of my own feelings. Thank you.

If you have psychic gifts, are you not looking to develop them? Meet the right people and you may well find a path that suits you spiritually. You still need to be wary of organisations that would subjugate your individuality and charlatans that seek power or money, of course. You can follow your own quiet path with meditation and healing. No need to tell fortunes unless that's your thing!

Christianity does acknowledge psychic skill, by the way, to the extent that some churches persecuted those with the gift and probably still do. The C of E recognises also the ability to communicate with those who have passed on because it angrily condemns efforts to 'wake them'. Some priests offer exorcism services. When people develop their individual skills and beliefs, the power hungry controllers panic. I wonder whether the churches' attitude is a sign that there is an after life or that there isn't and the scam would be revealed if we made our own enquiries.

I actually held back and hid my gifts for many years because it just wasn't something that was talked about in my family, and my mother was actually scared at first when I started telling her things. She didn't understand. At least, not until she began to read books by people like John Edwards and Sylvia Browne. Then she was able to look at me in a new light, and actually talk to me about things of a more psychic nature. Once she and I opened up a dialogue, I discovered I'm not the only one in my family with these gifts. And I found that comforting. Once I stopped trying to pretend it wasn't really happening, and I began to acknowledge what I could do, it was like a whole other world opened up for me. I have been working on opening myself up the last few years. I've tried meditation but I have ADD, so just trying to concentrate and focus for any length of time isn't easy, but I've found other ways of opening up. I don't dare say anything to anyone in this community though. They are so deep in their religions that I would likely be ostracized, and I don't want my kids to have to deal with that, so I just keep quiet and don't mention the spirits I see or hear, or predictions I have. I keep them to myself and discuss them with only one friend, as she is the only other person I know like myself. Without her I would truly feel alone in this world. Maybe there is no real place for me in any real religion. I doubt God would shun me for it. I feel his love, and for now, that's good enough. What is the C of E by the way? Church of ??? And see, that is my fear, that I would be condemned, shunned, turned away. I don't necessarily want to join a church just to be part of a group, because to me it's not about the people, it's about the bond with God, but I do want to be a part of something bigger than myself, and through the church I am able to help my community, and that I find fulfilling. I live in a tiny town of only 50 people, and there are literally only 8 children total in town. If I went around talking about what I could do, families would slam their doors in my face, and by slamming them in my face, they would also slam them in my childrens' faces, and that isn't fair to them. They have gifts too, but it stays in the house. I am still teaching them how, and when, it is ok to bring things like that up in conversation. I don't want them alienated. I could handle it, but they are young and need friends. But it's a real reason why I often don't feel like fit in anywhere.

 

[thaiturkey]

Hi CCM.

C of E is the Church of England, otherwise known as the Anglican Church. In Tudor times, England was Roman Catholic. King Henry VIII wanted to divorce a wife but the Pope refused his request. Henry simply created his own church - an idea copied by others in later centuries.

Most people with psychic skills have to keep a little quiet about it outside their own trusted circle to avoid ridicule. Your situation is more severe that that and there must be some very primitive minds in your town. You have to decide, I suppose, whether or not you are willing to have that sort of person control your life and stifle the spiritual growth of you and your family.

If you lived in England I would know just where to direct you but I don't know the US. Below, though, is a website that might get you started on a path to discover your own like minded friends and create your own networks. I can't say whether the organisation behind the website would be right for you but it would get you started towards finding some contacts. I understand that you don't want to be part of an organisation but some friends with similar skills would be good, yes?

ADD can be helped by meditation. Just do what you can each time and accept that. There's no failure. If it's not working at any time, stop and go back to it later. Learn something about self-hypnotic induction - it's the same as going into a meditative state.

Stay grounded and good luck!


http://psychicnetwork.ning.com/

 

[Damummis]

Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told
Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right

This is HarlansHollowFarms signature line.

Can it be said any better???

 

[Organics North]

Quote:

I personally find ways to not struggle trying to fit in someone else's boxed definition.

...... Avoiding things such as fear and guilt.
I usually run fast from doctrines and dogma. (All man's construct's of the "box" IMO)

As for "god" it is every atom and molecule in the universe for me. So if someone can "associate" with god in an orange or an apple, so be it. It does not mean the orange or apple IS god. I too feel Jesus is "real"...Along with many other great profits, many of which were the spark to other great religions. My problem is with the interpretation/manipulation of their teachings.

I wish you the best on your path.. chicken china mom...

On Morality:
One needs to be careful on trying to define it! I have to run so I will only say..... Give more than you take...Hurt less than you are hurt..

ON

 

[mrbstephens]

Hi....non-religious person here! I am also spiritual and believe in God, but do not follow any religion or attend any church services.