APA/ABA culture for Newcomers

[poltroon]

With which variety of Wyandotte did you decide to work?

I am glad that you like the idea, and I hope that it reaches many folks. It's not really that I intend to "convert" people. Rather, there are folks with good intentions, who really want to move forward in a powerful way, and it is easy around these parts to receive misinformation. This space is specifically and uniquely for the working out of APA/ABA based information. It may not be what so and so wants to hear, but the effort will be to distill it as closely as possible to the APA/ABA ideal.

We have Golden Laced Wyandottes, because yes, we like banging our heads against a wall sometimes.

We also have Buckeyes, for the times when we don't like banging our heads against a wall.

 

[poltroon]

Quote: Yellow House Farm, perhaps as a separate thread in this forum, I would love to know more about your system for being able to track the pedigree of individual birds - from the beginning of knowing which hen an egg came from to keeping the chicks straight when they hatch to having them identified as they grow, and then the permanent ID as an adult. I've picked up some ideas but I'm still trying to work out a system that works for both me and the birds.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I'll talk about tracking soon.

As for the GL Wyandottes, if I were going to go that route, and I've thought of it on multiple occasions, I would get a few of the very best SL Wyandotte pullets, and I would cover them with golden males. All of the pullets from that pairing would come out Golden. The males would be Silver/split Golden. From there it would only take you a few seasons.

 

[poltroon]

I'll talk about tracking soon.

As for the GL Wyandottes, if I were going to go that route, and I've thought of it on multiple occasions, I would get a few of the very best SL Wyandotte pullets, and I would cover them with golden males. All of the pullets from that pairing would come out Golden. The males would be Silver/split Golden. From there it would only take you a few seasons.

That is the plan!! We have some straight GLW babies that just hatched, and we are growing some SLW chicks to add in next year. We have one really quite nice GLW hen but she is getting older and is not laying reliably. The male is pretty decent if maybe a little small compared to the winning Whites. The other hens are OK but would be culls in any other variety, so I hope that the silver will add some size and shape (and numbers) to the flock so we don't have to settle on the hen quality. I'm a big believer in the importance of quality females, and I think in this variety, some fresh genetic material will be a big help.

They are very pretty birds when done well. I'm under no illusion that we'll ever win a BB Wyandotte with them, but I think we'd be pretty thrilled to have some nice ones to show and win some BV with them (even though we'll probably be the only entrants

). I think perhaps a realistic and long-term goal would be to win BV and also have other entrants.

It seems like there are a couple of other people who are attempting the same thing, all of us quite new to our projects, so hopefully there will start to be more of them in more places.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

As long as you use the very best Silver Laced possible, you will have the genes for excellence, and then there is no need to reign in your scope. SOme of the best in the country are currently held by APA judge Rick Hare. Where are you located?


Oh, I see, California. Ask APA judge Walt Leonard where to find the best SL on the west coast. He is on here regularly.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Yellow House Farm, perhaps as a separate thread in this forum, I would love to know more about your system for being able to track the pedigree of individual birds - from the beginning of knowing which hen an egg came from to keeping the chicks straight when they hatch to having them identified as they grow, and then the permanent ID as an adult. I've picked up some ideas but I'm still trying to work out a system that works for both me and the birds.

I'm not YHF, but I do track each individual bird. All my birds have numbered leg bands. I have photos and descriptive information on every bird. I have a row of individual breeding pens. One hen goes into each pen. An index card is on the door listing the hen's id and which cock bird will be used to breed her. I rotate the male from pen to pen. When I collect the eggs, they are marked with the hen's id #. I have written records on each breeding, both in a notebook and on the computer. When using an incubator, eggs are separated into baskets, one for each pairing. When using broody hens, I will only put one pairing's eggs under her or two if I am hatching two different breeds.
I identify each chick with different colored zip ties, until they are big enough for numbered bandettes. I'm thinking about switching to wing bands, but will continue using the numbered leg bands. I have too many combinations to use toe punches, since I do individual pairings rather than family group breeding.
As I watch the chicks grow out, I am constantly taking notes on their development. I keep track of what each pairing produces, both good and bad. This influences which breeders will be culled and which will be in the next year's breeding groups.

 

[3riverschick]

I identify each chick with different colored zip ties, until
they are big enough for numbered bandettes.
Hi Kim,
You put the leg bands on at what age ? If too young, I am worried they will fall off.
Thanks
Karen

 

[capayvalleychick]

I identify each chick with different colored zip ties, until
they are big enough for numbered bandettes.
Hi Kim,
You put the leg bands on at what age ? If too young, I am worried they will fall off.
Thanks
Karen

Depends on the breed and size of the chicks. With some of the Delawares, I can't get the leg bands to stay on until they are close to a month old. Dorkings can be banded a week or two earlier because the fifth toe holds the band on.

I don't know why they don't make bands small enough for chicks. The guy who was hatching for me tried pigeon bands one time, at hatch. Those worked well with the Dorkings and some of the Delawares. I checked on them often enough that I was able to replace any lost band with zip ties.

 

[Chestnut]

Quote: I am not trying to be argumentative. I've read most your posts and agree with your approach and what you say. Its just the whole breed=type that's throwing me. I'm new to chickens, other than the few chickens I had as a kid, but I've got a degree in biology so I'm not new to the concepts of genetics. Maybe that's what's throwing me for a loop. I'm applying a formal concept and equating breed with sub species. It just blows my mind that breed is essentially a collection of phenotypes regardless of genetic makeup and could possibly be arrived at through various cross breeds.

 

[3riverschick]

I am not trying to be argumentative. I've read most your posts and agree with your approach and what you say. Its just the whole breed=type that's throwing me. I'm new to chickens, other than the few chickens I had as a kid, but I've got a degree in biology so I'm not new to the concepts of genetics. Maybe that's what's throwing me for a loop. I'm applying a formal concept and equating breed with sub species. It just blows my mind that breed is essentially a collection of phenotypes regardless of genetic makeup and could possibly be arrived at through various cross breeds.

Hi Chestnut !

Yup, Yup, Yup. Blew my mind too. I came to poultry after 15 years in the collie dog fancy.
Breeding dogs with all that entails. I remember the first time Weislaw and nicalandia
explained it to me.

, I was so confused! I also remember the time I found out that
in my breed, Sussex fowl, if it doesn't look like a Sussex it isn't a Sussex. I was so sure
I had found a nugget of special wisdom.

What a come down when I found out
it was common knowledge for all poultry breeds

Coming from classic mammalian
animal breeding it sometimes seems like everything is upside down and backward
with poultry.

Things started to make more sense when I stopped trying to draw
parallels with the mammalian breeding world.

Except for the basic philosophies
for gathering virtue in a pedigree.
Best,
Karen