APA/ABA culture for Newcomers

[Shawneegyrl]

Very interesting and informative information here. Thank you for your commitment to educating all of us not only on the APA/ABA but also so much history on the development of breeds, varieties and even methods.

Will check in often. I am also interested in maintaining pedigrees for my small flock. Have been trying to work out a method I can manage easily and accurately.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I am also interested in maintaining pedigrees for my small flock. Have been trying to work out a method I can manage easily and accurately.

When you breed, the easiest was is to breed in pairs or matrilineal flocks, meaning keeping all grandmothers, mothers, daughters, etc., together and never sons.

Then, go to Smith Poultry Supplies online and order and order a handful of toe bunchers. That's were to begin. On the Livestock Conservancy, they have a nice worksheet for organizing toe punches, print it out and designate which patter belongs to which.

Eventually, you want to wingband as well.

Maintain a ledger that you update with every hatch. Keep it in your incubation room. In it, at the beginning of each season, write down the different pairings, hopefully according to their own toe-punches and wingbands, so that you have a reference over time.

 

[3riverschick]

Or Joseph,
You could just tell them that dog and mammalian genetics don't translate to poultry genetics. Aside from general principles on concentrating virtue in pedigrees, it's a new world out there in poultry.
Want sex linked genes? we got a million of 'um, ha, cha, cha, cha, cha! How about the XX and XY sex genes, oh wait, they are reversed in poultry. Colors? An awe inspiring palette which always seem to be somehow connected genetically to the colors you don't want, hee, hee. Oh and skin color? Take your pick, White? Yellow? Oh wait, maybe Black instead! The dreaded inbreeding of the dog world? Embraced in poultry which have much wider and more diverse gene pool.
Best,
Karen

 

[cgmccary]

I am also interested in maintaining pedigrees for my small flock. Have been trying to work out a method I can manage easily and accurately.

Yellow House Farm: When you breed, the easiest was is to breed in pairs or matrilineal flocks, meaning keeping all grandmothers, mothers, daughters, etc., together and never sons.
I maintain my La Fleche in three matrilineal flocks. I totally agree this is the easiest and best way to go for long term breeding. I toe punch and the pullets join their mothers, grandmothers. I rotate the males over the three groups. I need no further blood. One of the three groups produces sub-par males, and the hardest thing to do is to keep any of them.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

First time I have looked and read this thread. As usual, your way of describing and painting things is so eloquent and a good read -- after following you for years, I find from post #43 in June 2014, this sobering, depressing assessment (but true) by you, Joseph, a reality some of us would like to not know. Sad. I feel sometimes like I know deep inside that there will be an end for some of the old breeds. Also, I realize I am trying to get my La Fleche to be a vernal pool.

I maintain my La Fleche in three matrilineal flocks. I totally agree this is the easiest and best way to go for long term breeding. I toe punch and the pullets join their mothers, grandmothers. I rotate the males over the three groups. I need no further blood. One of the three groups produces sub-par males, and the hardest thing to do is to keep any of them.

Chris, I am so excited about your La Fleche breeding project. I think that in your care they are getting the most dedicated, most vibrant care they've received in a good long time. I wait with anticipation to see results each season! Thank you for stewarding them!!!

 

[QueenMisha]

Hi everyone! Just wanted to check in on this thread. I just ordered my SOP and APA membership today, and I can't wait until the SOP gets here! I've had a copy of the 1988 ABA SOP I've been studying the past few weeks (found it in the shop - lol - boss thought it was mine, I thought it was his, no one knows where it came from!) but it doesn't seem to include those first "33 pages" everyone keeps mentioning as very important to read, I guess that's only part of the APA Standadd. Still super useful though - since bantam varieties are supposed to be the same as standard except for weights of course. Or do the APA/ABA standards differ at all?

Oh, and I was kind of wondering, will they send me anything to prove my membership? Like a card or something? Or is it just like "Yup, you're in now." It wasn't explained on the website.

I don't really have any particularly serious standardbred projects going on right now... I've only been purposefully breeding certain birds (as opposed to just random mutts) for the past year or so and I started out this season with WAY too many projects. Probably had ten or twelve to start out, I've narrowed it down to Silkies (Cuckoos, and sex links made thereof (for pet homes), Booted Bantams (project color Mottled Black Copper) and some OEs. Gamefowl too but not with any goal, I just really like gamefowl. But the more I read about the standard and standardbred birds the more I'd really like to be able to cultivate and improve my own line of standardbred fowl - I'm finding I really like the looks of old American breeds, Rhode Islands, Plymouth Rocks, Wyandottes, Brahmas, etc. I've had Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks from Dick Horstman for the past several years, and I absolutely adore those, but I also recently acquired a Barred Rock who appears very nice (the difference between her and hatchery BRs is literally night and day) as well as a few RIRs who aren't great but who are decent and still drastically different from the Production Reds I've always worked with. I'm enjoying all these different birds but it's SO hard to choose just one to focus heavily on! Right now I think the Rocks are my top choice... I have one hen who is two or three years old, from my first batch, and then I have a quad of youngsters I purchased this May. The old hen is currently molting and so she's hideous, but I don't think she's great quality anyways - but then again what do I know. The young ones are looking great, from what I can tell anyways, one pullet in particular seems to be growing very well. The cockerel is ridiculously leggy but then again, aren't they all at this age?

Anyways... just wanted to introduce myself! Perhaps a bit long winded, but oh well.

 

[bramblefir]

Hi everyone! Just wanted to check in on this thread. I just ordered my SOP and APA membership today, and I can't wait until the SOP gets here! I've had a copy of the 1988 ABA SOP I've been studying the past few weeks (found it in the shop - lol - boss thought it was mine, I thought it was his, no one knows where it came from!) but it doesn't seem to include those first "33 pages" everyone keeps mentioning as very important to read, I guess that's only part of the APA Standadd. Still super useful though - since bantam varieties are supposed to be the same as standard except for weights of course. Or do the APA/ABA standards differ at all?

Oh, and I was kind of wondering, will they send me anything to prove my membership? Like a card or something? Or is it just like "Yup, you're in now." It wasn't explained on the website.

I don't really have any particularly serious standardbred projects going on right now... I've only been purposefully breeding certain birds (as opposed to just random mutts) for the past year or so and I started out this season with WAY too many projects. Probably had ten or twelve to start out, I've narrowed it down to Silkies (Cuckoos, and sex links made thereof (for pet homes), Booted Bantams (project color Mottled Black Copper) and some OEs. Gamefowl too but not with any goal, I just really like gamefowl. But the more I read about the standard and standardbred birds the more I'd really like to be able to cultivate and improve my own line of standardbred fowl - I'm finding I really like the looks of old American breeds, Rhode Islands, Plymouth Rocks, Wyandottes, Brahmas, etc. I've had Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks from Dick Horstman for the past several years, and I absolutely adore those, but I also recently acquired a Barred Rock who appears very nice (the difference between her and hatchery BRs is literally night and day) as well as a few RIRs who aren't great but who are decent and still drastically different from the Production Reds I've always worked with. I'm enjoying all these different birds but it's SO hard to choose just one to focus heavily on! Right now I think the Rocks are my top choice... I have one hen who is two or three years old, from my first batch, and then I have a quad of youngsters I purchased this May. The old hen is currently molting and so she's hideous, but I don't think she's great quality anyways - but then again what do I know. The young ones are looking great, from what I can tell anyways, one pullet in particular seems to be growing very well. The cockerel is ridiculously leggy but then again, aren't they all at this age?

Anyways... just wanted to introduce myself! Perhaps a bit long winded, but oh well.

I can't answer all of your questions, but I can tell you that they sent me a membership card.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Of course, putting out the $59 for the newest APA standard isn't huge money, so most folks who are serious about poultry would highly recommend it's purchase and I'm one of those folks.

The ABA and APA cooperate and work together closely. There are those minor differences but overall, either Standard would suit you well in the bantams. Of course, the ABA doesn't do Large Fowl, as that is exclusively the domain of the APA which does both. Hope you find a breed you want to work with and welcome to the world of Standard bred fowl. It's a great hobby.

 

[QueenMisha]

I can't answer all of your questions, but I can tell you that they sent me a membership card.

Thanks! Yep, I got it in the mail yesterday. So exciting!

Of course, putting out the $59 for the newest APA standard isn't huge money, so most folks who are serious about poultry would highly recommend it's purchase and I'm one of those folks.  

The ABA and APA cooperate and work together closely.  There are those minor differences but overall, either Standard would suit you well in the bantams.  Of course, the ABA doesn't do Large Fowl, as that is exclusively the domain of the APA which does both.  Hope you find a breed you want to work with and welcome to the world of Standard bred fowl.  It's a great hobby.

I did purchase an SOP, I've just been reading through my old bantam standard the past few weeks and I was wondering how close the bantam standard was to the normal SOP. But my new one just arrived yesterday! I've been paging through it and it has SO much interesting information. Thank you for the welcome.

 

[ejcrist]

Chris, I am so excited about your La Fleche breeding project. I think that in your care they are getting the most dedicated, most vibrant care they've received in a good long time. I wait with anticipation to see results each season! Thank you for stewarding them!!!

Joe - I just read though this thread and wanted to thank you for all your input. I'm a new chicken raiser and APA member and I'm putting together a breeding program now for Barred Rocks, Brown Leghorns, and RIR's. I really don't know what I'm doing yet but your comments helped me define my goals better. At first I was only interested in breeding for egg production but then I also wanted to breed to the standard so I had a lot of internal conflict between the two. If I was only interested in egg production I'd do best to maintain a flock of Sex Links which was definitely not something I wanted to do. After a lot of reading I decided what I really want to do is breed to the standard which will give me what I want in the end which is dual purpose birds (BR and RIR) as they were when they originally were recognized, and in the case of the Leghorn, a productive white egg layer that's also heat tolerant for my climate. I'm really not concerned only with egg laying as I thought I was. I used to think that birds bred for show may or may not be good producers but then I came to realize if the birds scored high on the standards they would have the qualities that made them good producers of eggs or meat in the first place. So the way I look at it now is that it's best to pick breeds on the qualities you want, and then find a good breeder for your stock and breed to that standard since the SOP will lead you to what you want in a bird.