APRIL Hatch a long ......Anyone?

[Farmer Viola]

Okay, final results are four live chicks. I assisted three of those. Late day 22 I just had a bad, bad feeling after two out of eight had side pips and the first one died. The last few days I had a hard time keeping temps stable. The humidity SAID it was plenty high, but I really question the accuracy after what happened.

Anyway, late on day 22 I decided to check an egg that had been internally pipped and moving for the better part of a day. Nothing,no movement. Opened the aircell and the little guy was shrink wrapped and dead. The egg that had an external pip was now only peeping weakly...decided to intervene and upon opening his pip a little more saw he was also drying out. I used mineral oil to moisten the membrane, and gently moved the membrane from his nostrils. After a couple minutes he started peeping with more vigor.

I decided to check a couple of eggs that I expected to hatch first, based on candling at lockdown - the aircells had started to shift when I taped up the bator lid to keep humidity in. Both gone. So at this point I said screw it and candled and opened aircells on the rest. Found two more that was still alive. One hadn't pipped internally so I cleared it's nostrils and it started peeping after a minute or so. So I had two pipped into aircells and stuck, and one side pip.

I worked mineral oil into the membrane and rotated around the four. There were blood vessels visible and I worked mineral oil to the edges of the shell as I went. The little chick that hadn't pipped was doing great, but I made a grave mistake and let them all get too cold. I had set up heat lamp, but I was worried it was too hot, etc....ack...that little chick did die. After she was gone and I removed her from the shell I saw her yolk fully absorbed and everything. I moved the heat lamp closer for the rest, figured if my hands weren't burning, neither were they!

After that I was a little more aggressive with the other two that had internally pipped. Freed head and shoulders slowly, eventually leaving them in the bottom half of their shell to kick out when they could. The side pip chick was super tricky, she had a blood vessel right between where she had pipped and the aircell...just was patient until the vessel dried up and I could clear her head.

The thee made it and so far they are all doing well. Little extra wobbly on their feet, but now they are all drinking and getting around fine. Of the chicks that didn't hatch, one was a wrong side pip that died before I decided to intervene. Three were positioned correctly with yolk sacs partially absorbed, and one fully absorbed (and internally pipped), one was completely backwards, head in the small end.

I know assisting is controversial, but the hatch went bad because of my equipment design failure. I'm glad I helped. I feel bad I didn't check one of the eggs that had the obvious slanted aircell earlier, but I was taking the hands off and let them do what they do approach. I am extremely happy to end up with four live chicks from a little styrofoam seafood shipping box that was thrown together macgyver style. We will try again next year, with calibrated t-stats and humidity sensors (unless I have four little roos here).

Sorry so long!! Wasn't sure I should share, but that's my story and learning experience. If you take anything from this it should be to calibrate your equipment and have redundancy...I feel stupid for not at least getting a second hygrometer in there over the course of three weeks! It never took much to raise the humidity...it was a small space, but I should have suspected something was up.

wow, thanks for sharing. some of this sounds eerily similar to what I've just been through. I'm on day 22 with 2 side pips and 6 eggs without any external pip. one air cell is way off to the side of the egg, not in the top at all, probably malpositioned and the first one I would assist if I chose to intervene..

in conclusion, you think your humidity was too high, or too low? (due to faulty equipment)

what I can't reconcile is that mine has been dead on the whole time.

 

[Sterl18]

The survivors.

The three EE/BO chicks. The one on the left is the only one to hatch normally. And he's almost two days ahead of his siblings.


The one EE/EE chick, middle left.

 

[Sterl18]

Of course I still don't have a calibrated hygrometer, but I really think too low. I weighed weekly and the average weight going into lockdown was good. It did not take a whole lot to raise the humidity, I taped the lid, and I had a little hole where I could drip water onto the cloth. I also had a hard time keeping temps stable the last few days, for whatever reason, but I was too afraid to close up any vents. I read somewhere that temp fluctuations can mess with the chicks postioning. I'm also wondering if the computer fan was too much for the little space. I sort of wish I had connected it is series with the lights so there was some voltage drop and it ran a little slower.

Is your hygrometer calibrated?

 

[Sterl18]

I candled my eggs last night and as of then (day 9) I have lost only 1 since the heat spike. I saw the classic blood ring.

15/20 have made it to day 10.
Thank you for your encouragement.

Good news! : ) You are halfway there!

 

[Sclark73]

Does anyone know how long after an internal pip their has to be an external before chick dies?

 

[Sterl18]

Does anyone know how long after an internal pip their has to be an external before chick dies?

What I read was 24 hours or more...and that it is the carbon dioxide that builds up in the egg causes the muscle contractions to allow the chick to break through the shell. If temps and humidity are good I'd lock em down and let them do their thing, especially if you are only on day 20.

 

[Sclark73]

What I read was 24 hours or more...and that it is the carbon dioxide that builds up in the egg causes the muscle contractions to allow the chick to break through the shell. If temps an humidity are good I'd lock em down and let them do their thing, especially if you are only on day 20.

Thanks, I knew I read it somewhere like that but after I hear everyone elses horror stories I get worried all over again and wanted to be sure.

 

[Farmer Viola]

Of course I still don't have a calibrated hygrometer, but I really think too low. I weighed weekly and the average weight going into lockdown was good. It did not take a whole lot to raise the humidity, I taped the lid, and I had a little hole where I could drip water onto the cloth. I also had a hard time keeping temps stable the last few days, for whatever reason, but I was too afraid to close up any vents. I read somewhere that temp fluctuations can mess with the chicks postioning. I'm also wondering if the computer fan was too much for the little space. I sort of wish I had connected it is series with the lights so there was some voltage drop and it ran a little slower.

Is your hygrometer calibrated?

yes it is, and I actually use 2 of them... I had a very steady temp the whole time, too. they were shipped and detached air cells, but I had very high hopes! it seems to me that they are mostly having malposition problems, I am guessing due to shipment? they were in an auto-turner.

I took some of the non pipped eggs into a dark steamy bathroom for candling. so far, 6 have been eliminated and 6 remain (including the 2 already hatched out)

#13 and #10 both look good and were put back after candling. they have big air cells with a dip in them, I can see movement (looks like breathing up/down) so I think it is internally pipped, both of them. I am trying to wait for these 2 to hatch on their own.
#14 has externally pipped, candled and the air cell looks nice and big (empty), put back.
#11 has externally pipped but is producing a LOT of foam. I keep wiping it off and it keeps making more. it looks like it will suffocate. I wiped it back and cleared the nostrils. I candled it, and there is almost NO air cell on this egg. the chick is completely consuming the air cell. in the tip of the egg, there is a hollow spot, and I think the yolk is absorbed. I chipped away a very small amount of shell around the beak, saw a vein, put it back. I am going to have to assist this one fully, since the air cell is so full I believe it is malpositioned and cannot spin/zip
#1 hatched assisted (was foaming and consuming air cell)
#7 hatched unassisted & healthy


eggtopsies day 22:
#8 - weird air cell on the side of the egg, not the top. this chick was completely malpositioned. I chipped off the shell and left the membrane in tact. The opposite side of the air cell, on the side wall of the egg, the chick had pipped into the membrane. I could see it's little white beak. it did not puncture the shell though. this would have been straight down after I laid it on it's side. it hit a vein, and there was a pool of brown blood, so I think this happened at least 24hrs ago (today is day 22)
#5 - quit around day 18-19, kinda small in size but mostly formed, more liquidy. the membrane was detached from the shell throughout.
#2 - the line between chick and air cell looked muddy/wobbly, not solid and dark, it was also consuming part of the air cell (should have been bigger A.C). Upon opening it, the chick had internally pipped but could not externally pipped. it's foot was on top of it's head, and the beak could not make contact with the shell. the chick was quite large for the shell, I think it ran out of air. the yolk was mostly absorbed.
#12 - malpositioned, didnt pip, feet were on it's head between head and egg shell wall, could not pip. didnt internally pip either. membrane detached from shell throughout. yolk not absorbed, maybe died around day 20, just never pipped.
#6 - pipped very low on the shell & drowned day 21
#9 - pipped below air cell into vein & died day 21

 

[Sterl18]

Quote: Ah, shipped eggs! Yeah, last year I put 8 shipped eggs under a broody. Three developed and made it to the end and all internally pipped. Saddle shaped aircells in all three. One hatched successfully.

I wonder if anyone else has an explanation for the foam?! I haven't heard of that before.

In #11 - I'd be careful and not assume the yolk is absorbed because it sounds like the chick shifted into the where the aircell normally is and maybe you are seeing space at the tip because of it, not necessarily because the yolk is absorbed...one of the shipped ones we lost last year had externally pipped and started to zip, then died after it's foot broke the yolk. That might be why some pause when zipping? Thinking out loud...lol.

Do you hear tapping in 13 and 10? And have you read Sally Sunshine's guide to hatching/helping shipped eggs?

Shipped eggs add a whole level of difficulty to hatching, even if your conditions are perfect! (Just the same, I am going to have two calibrated everythings next time! LOL)

 

[Farmer Viola]

Ah, shipped eggs! Yeah, last year I put 8 shipped eggs under a broody. Three developed and made it to the end and all internally pipped. Saddle shaped aircells in all three. One hatched successfully.

I wonder if anyone else has an explanation for the foam?! I haven't heard of that before.

In #11 - I'd be careful and not assume the yolk is absorbed because it sounds like the chick shifted into the where the aircell normally is and maybe you are seeing space at the tip because of it, not necessarily because the yolk is absorbed...one of the shipped ones we lost last year had externally pipped and started to zip, then died after it's foot broke the yolk. That might be why some pause when zipping? Thinking out loud...lol.

Do you hear tapping in 13 and 10? And have you read Sally Sunshine's guide to hatching/helping shipped eggs?

Shipped eggs add a whole level of difficulty to hatching, even if your conditions are perfect! (Just the same, I am going to have two calibrated everythings next time! LOL)

Oh yes, this isn't my first rodeo

I've refined a separate hatching method specifically for detached air cells as well, brought my hatch rate up from 10% to 50-80%... shipped eggs are just really, really tough.

I have come a long way in my incubation techniques, I'm finally confident that I did everything "right" but these deaths could not be helped. bleh... still doesn't make it easy...

I am also comfortable assisting and intervening, I have had to make internal pips for some chicks in the past, and they made it... the 1st link in my signature has REALLY good info about assisting, knowing when to assist, and understanding the final stages of growth and what to look for from day 18-21 (which is largely undocumented in my experience and had to be mostly self-learned)

I moved the 2 dried babies to the brooder, the last 4 eggs in the incubator are just taking their sweet time. btw I cancelled my plans for today LOL no way I can leave the house!!!