Are Guinea Farm and other hatchery keets different?

[Sydney65]

Hi @Sydney65 , I’m moving our discussion here so we don’t continue to hijack Cassie_joe’s thread. I started thinking about hatchery differences when I saw a post on a Guinea fowl FB group (can’t find the post now) about how the poster’s subadult/young adult birds from shipped keets acted differently from her previous-existing free range flock. She (OP) stated that the shipped keets didn’t stick with each other or with preexisting flock but wandered about individually when free ranging and so were easy prey without the protection of a flock. The OP postulated that it was because breeders were selected for ability to thrive in confinement rather than live as a functional free range flock that avoids predators. That post got me wondering if other people had experienced this, or maybe other differences like less nesting or parenting instincts.

As for cock behavior - that’s awesome that your boys are so good with keets! I’ve seen a lot of variability in how my cocks respond to keets, with keeticide on one end of the spectrum to being a great teacher/protector on the other, and lots in the middle that weren’t aggressive but weren’t helpful either. My birds originated from a lot of different flocks, with the original groups from free range flocks and the last few from confined flocks bred for color. I am anxious to see what the behavior of the new shipped keets will be like as they mature, and I really hope I can get them successfully integrated!

Good idea- I forget where we're at sometimes. Again, goes back to my tongue in cheek "if you mean racism" comment. The pack stays together, but run Mockie & Willow off. That was true of Nugget as well.They try w/Zuri but he sticks w/them.
I don't think Numi gave them the opportunity, she chased them away from her and wandered abt as a loner until she finally accepted Brodie always creeping behind her - and I do mean creeping, hunched low and tip toeing behind her. He startled her one day early last spring, she didn't realize he was there (that oblivious factor) turned, saw him and bolted onto his back with her claws. I give him credit, he didn't flinch, just froze and waited for her to hop down. It was shortly after that when she gave in and accepted him free ranging with her.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Good idea- I forget where we're at sometimes. Again, goes back to my tongue in cheek "if you mean racism" comment. The pack stays together, but run Mockie & Willow off. That was true of Nugget as well.They try w/Zuri but he sticks w/them.
I don't think Numi gave them the opportunity, she chased them away from her and wandered abt as a loner until she finally accepted Brodie always creeping behind her - and I do mean creeping, hunched low and tip toeing behind her. He startled her one day early last spring, she didn't realize he was there (that oblivious factor) turned, saw him and bolted onto his back with her claws. I give him credit, he didn't flinch, just froze and waited for her to hop down. It was shortly after that when she gave in and accepted him free ranging with her.

Ah poor Brodie! He really had to stick with a very subdued courtship! Yeah, we always have several fringe birds. They’ve always been female, but then I always had more girls than boys until now. Are Mockie and Willow hens? My odd colored hens have been more likely to be fringe birds, but I have so many colors now that there isn’t really an odd man out any more… My current lowest ranking birds are a pied RP cock and a white cock, so the loss of females may be changing who the flock finds to be expendable? It should be clearer once they stop pairing up for winter.

 

[Sydney65]

I was hoping things would settle down for winter once the keets were gone and they needed each other for body heat.
Yes, Willow and Mockie are hens. Nuggie was not. He assigned himself as guard after he lost his mate, kept watch, gave the evening call, wouldn't go in until everyone else was in, chased stragglers (usually Mama). Guarded Mama on her nest, guarded her keets- but remained outside of the circle. As a youngster,I always felt like he was an instigator, though. He tormented the crap out of Blue,but the entire flock took great amusement in chasing Nug around the house.
Nug rode around on my shoulder bc it was the safest place to be, & when I gave treats I'd slip his behind me & he knew where to go to snack w/o being chased. He had his own feed bowl up high,his own roost off to the side. I tried to reincorporate those but Brodie took the roost and Ryu took the feed bowl.
Both coops have a 5 gal feeder plus red rooster wall units, everything is pulled away from walls and corners to make escape routes.
Bella II was light brown/tan. They didn't even pick on or ostracize her after she was hit & had the wound on her back. She was from a private seller. But she was the one who survived all of that and was mysteriously snatched out of the garden. (Ha-and there was another bear siting about an hr south of me a few days ago. When so many disappeared so quickly in the killing field and I found the huge pile, I was at such a loss I wondered..)

 

[Sydney65]

Remembered this conversation tonight. Now that yours are older, curious on what you've noticed. You would think being together all this time, they wld be cohesive. The slate males are bullies. They and the violet hens have formed a pack, all else is on the fringe. Zuri sticks with them, kind of like Pigpen in Peanuts Cartoons. Willow and Mockie still tip toe trying to go unnoticed. I've noticed them challenging Numi to the point that I think that's what stressed her out. Even the jumbos seem to have submitted to them and try to stay out of their way.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Remembered this conversation tonight. Now that yours are older, curious on what you've noticed. You would think being together all this time, they wld be cohesive. The slate males are bullies. They and the violet hens have formed a pack, all else is on the fringe. Zuri sticks with them, kind of like Pigpen in Peanuts Cartoons. Willow and Mockie still tip toe trying to go unnoticed. I've noticed them challenging Numi to the point that I think that's what stressed her out. Even the jumbos seem to have submitted to them and try to stay out of their way.

I really hope they all get along and that they don’t terrorize sweet Numi!!! Mine can easily terrorize a large rooster with spurs, especially if they act as a group. In my first flock, the confusion started acting like a coordinated wolf pack at 3-4 months of age to take on the much bigger ducks and cockerels. I wish I had video because I never would have expected those previously meek and dumb acting Guinea fowl to somehow become a tightly coordinated, single minded flock where 15 birds would gang up on one duck. It really was horrifying for me and the duck! The pack would skillfully separate one terrified duck from the other ducks and literally bury it in feathered bodies. Those ducks are still terrified of the guineas, years later. They will quack and act aggressive towards them, but if the Guinea actually makes a move towards a duck, they run (waddle actually, it’s cute but pitiful) and quack in terror. Fortunately, few of my current guineas care about the ducks so they mostly just stare at their odd “aggression” in bemusement.

As to your question about follow up on our GF keets, I realy have not yet seen that they act differently from our own farm bred keets. They are not a cohesive group yet, but they’ve only been out in the coop and run. Today is the day I’ll let them out with the whole flock! I’ve slowly been integrating them, with “look don’t touch” but also letting them out of the brooder and into the coop with only one of two of the friendlier adults. Razorback has adopted them and is so concerned about them. Last night, he got them all up in the roost during their coop time. It was really awful for me and them as I had to knock them all down with a stick (gently! I pushed them off as they didn’t want to be herded off) to get them back in the brooder cage and let the rest of the flock in to roost. I wanted to leave them be with Razorback, but it seemed to me the worst possible way to introduce them to the adults as my adults quarrel a lot when roosting, plus they would have all been cooped up in close quarters in the morning. Writing is on the wall though - I need to get them all integrated today. Of course the bobcat has been around again. Guineas have been cooped a few days, I’ve cleared more brush, and I’ll walk the dog around before letting the adult birds out. Then I’ll let the keets out to meet them. Keets don’t know anything about outside, pop doors, etc so wish us luck!!! I’m very curious to see if the keets stay together as a cohesive group when free-ranging.

 

[Sydney65]

I really hope they all get along and that they don’t terrorize sweet Numi!!! Mine can easily terrorize a large rooster with spurs, especially if they act as a group. In my first flock, the confusion started acting like a coordinated wolf pack at 3-4 months of age to take on the much bigger ducks and cockerels. I wish I had video because I never would have expected those previously meek and dumb acting Guinea fowl to somehow become a tightly coordinated, single minded flock where 15 birds would gang up on one duck. It really was horrifying for me and the duck! The pack would skillfully separate one terrified duck from the other ducks and literally bury it in feathered bodies. Those ducks are still terrified of the guineas, years later. They will quack and act aggressive towards them, but if the Guinea actually makes a move towards a duck, they run (waddle actually, it’s cute but pitiful) and quack in terror. Fortunately, few of my current guineas care about the ducks so they mostly just stare at their odd “aggression” in bemusement.

As to your question about follow up on our GF keets, I realy have not yet seen that they act differently from our own farm bred keets. They are not a cohesive group yet, but they’ve only been out in the coop and run. Today is the day I’ll let them out with the whole flock! I’ve slowly been integrating them, with “look don’t touch” but also letting them out of the brooder and into the coop with only one of two of the friendlier adults. Razorback has adopted them and is so concerned about them. Last night, he got them all up in the roost during their coop time. It was really awful for me and them as I had to knock them all down with a stick (gently! I pushed them off as they didn’t want to be herded off) to get them back in the brooder cage and let the rest of the flock in to roost. I wanted to leave them be with Razorback, but it seemed to me the worst possible way to introduce them to the adults as my adults quarrel a lot when roosting, plus they would have all been cooped up in close quarters in the morning. Writing is on the wall though - I need to get them all integrated today. Of course the bobcat has been around again. Guineas have been cooped a few days, I’ve cleared more brush, and I’ll walk the dog around before letting the adult birds out. Then I’ll let the keets out to meet them. Keets don’t know anything about outside, pop doors, etc so wish us luck!!! I’m very curious to see if the keets stay together as a cohesive group when free-ranging.

Yes,the neighbor said she saw a fox in the field yesterday.. remember, she's 86 yo, so it might have been a fox (unusual), or a coyote (probable), a dog,skunk or unicorn. So, no free time.
Gosh..,I'd haaate for Numi to move back inside...lol.