Are you Pro-Gun because of predators?

[Dogfish]

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Most dogs don't, unless specifically trained for hunting.

Mine knows the difference. He leaves the turkeys and chickens alone, and he stays on our property because he has been trained. He also does well retrieving ducks, geese, grouse and pheasants.

You are really painting things with a rather broad brush. We know you are anti-gun except for the most dire of circumstances, and that you are anti-killing. The problem is that the rest of us live in the real world, on real farms, where real stuff actually happens, not in some hypothetical "straw man" universe.

 

[Desert Rooster]

I concider myself a one man army to protect my flock

 

[mkcolls]

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Having them to take care of predators that kill and threaten our flocks is common sense.

 

[boomer54]

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x2 well said

 

[EMaker]

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The dog owner's irresponsibility is all that matters. If all owners maintained their property responsibly, you'd not find yourself constructing a case that, for all intents and purposes, concludes that if someone throws a rock through one of my windows, I should return the rock to the thrower and be polite while doing so. As I mentioned in my original post someone else's dog on my property is the dog owner's proxy agent of trespass and potential destruction - an unguided missile loosed haphazardly. If the dog owner, instead of the dog, entered the property, got down on their hands and knees and started tearing apart the poultry (penned or not - doesn't matter - my property, yes?) and eating them raw, I'd probably wish I had some injectable haldol at hand (wouldn't shoot them, waste of everyone's time - do have a nice aluminum baseball bat for inducing anesthesia). Dogs are even less predictable and as a deputy sheriff, who laughed at the question, told me `match up slugs from a dog, you've got to be ******* me"

A secure run and coop is required, I agree. Putting down an irresponsible idiot's vermin, on our property is a burden imposed on me by idiots, that's a certainty, QED.

ed:sp

That most certainly is NOT the construction of my case. It is your misinterpretation of my case. Of course, I don't equate dogs and rocks, but hey, thats's just me.

For goodness sakes', what a stretch, a dog is NOT a dog owner's proxy. Seriously?! Wow.

 

[EMaker]

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Most dogs don't, unless specifically trained for hunting.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q233/mesoas/Chickens/0612002043.jpg

Mine knows the difference. He leaves the turkeys and chickens alone, and he stays on our property because he has been trained. He also does well retrieving ducks, geese, grouse and pheasants.

You are really painting things with a rather broad brush. We know you are anti-gun except for the most dire of circumstances, and that you are anti-killing. The problem is that the rest of us live in the real world, on real farms, where real stuff actually happens, not in some hypothetical "straw man" universe.

Of course there are herding breeds, retrieving breeds, etc. Still, even trained schutzhund dogs with high prey drive sometimes have trouble differentiating between the family cat and a working target. But that wasn't my point; I was referring to the marauding dogs, the dogs belonging to other people who bother your livestock. My point was that some of those dog owners allow their dogs to kill vermin and when those dogs wander, those dogs aren't likely to appreciate a difference beween a wild animal and your poultry. In other words, I was using that point to illustrate how the villain in this scenario is the errant dog owner...and not the dog. Even when it's an inherently vicious dog---it's that vicious dog's owner who is ultimately at fault for allowing it to endanger others.

 

[yinepu]

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X2

 

[Ole and Lena]

To address the dog issue directly with my favorite tool, a 12ga shotgun, I keep some "less lethal" munitions handy. I reload my own shells, stuff some with airsoft "bbs" loaded to about 500 fps. Not completely harmless, they could potentially put an eye out but they are very discouraging to deer and large dogs. They don't come back much after taking a couple pellets at 50 yards. Tested them on a fresh deer hide to be sure they wouldn't penetrate. They're also a lot of fun to pop beer cans with when tossed up in the air. Give's em a good ride.

I think they also make paint ball pellets with OC pepper spray in them. Those would be fun from a Tippman 98.

It would take a lot for me to shoot somebody's pet dog. I would pursue every non-lethal option multiple times. Even good dogs can go wrong. Feral dogs and cats on the other hand are fair game. Animals without collars that are not socialized are feral in my opinion. Had a pack of 4 running by my uncles some 15 years ago with prices on their heads and wanted posters on the utility poles. They racked up about a dozen calves, countless poultry, a few local dogs and one prized quarter horse in the township before their reign of terror ended. I got one (and a $200 bounty) game warden got one, local farmer thought he hit one but couldn't find it, fourth disappeared. Those 2 probably died from buckshot wounds or the coyotes got em after their pack lost critical mass.

 

[Lyssa]

I have guns, and I don't have a issue with firing the guns or killing something. But, that said, I think we have made predators struggle for food and while I don't wish to lose any of my girls to a raccoon, fox, coyote or whatever, I think the game is to build a better chicken coop and anything that beats me at that game is tithing to God. I'll shoot a stranger who enters my home, I won't shoot a raccoon, I'll make myself smarter. The exception to this rule is dogs. I am a dog lover, but ... they aren't under the same pressure as other predators, I would of course prefer to shoot the owner...

 

[EMaker]

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Amen, sista! But, don't be so sure that some of these bad dog owners are providing ample food; perhaps many of these marauding dogs are under similar pressure as other predators. After all, if the irresponsible owners don't care enough to keep their dogs safe at home, I'm not sure I believe they care enough to feed them much, either.