Can we please cool it on the "shoot the owner" comments? I can't keep up with the reports.
Are you Pro-Gun because of predators?
- Thread starter Fowl_Odor002
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i am pro guns for defense of my family and animals...in countries where only the crimals have guns an unarmed citizen is easy prey as a chicken without a coop...
Quote:
Amen, sista! But, don't be so sure that some of these bad dog owners are providing ample food; perhaps many of these marauding dogs are under similar pressure as other predators. After all, if the irresponsible owners don't care enough to keep their dogs safe at home, I'm not sure I believe they care enough to feed them much, either.
Point taken.
One solution might be to put out dry dog food and see if that reduces predation... Or, you might just call all the players to the scene. Of course predator don't typically tolerate each other and that might be the most effective way of keeping them all wary of each other and not interested in bothering your chooks.
Amen, sista! But, don't be so sure that some of these bad dog owners are providing ample food; perhaps many of these marauding dogs are under similar pressure as other predators. After all, if the irresponsible owners don't care enough to keep their dogs safe at home, I'm not sure I believe they care enough to feed them much, either.
Point taken.
One solution might be to put out dry dog food and see if that reduces predation... Or, you might just call all the players to the scene. Of course predator don't typically tolerate each other and that might be the most effective way of keeping them all wary of each other and not interested in bothering your chooks.
- Aug 30, 2011
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Progun because of preditors? Yes and no.
I was raised around guns and I collect guns as hobby. Antique to modern fire arms.
Now I hunt and work on a realitives ranch and I carry a handgun or rifle at all times because of a mountain lion we have on the land.
I don't activily hunt her but I have the gun to protect me if I come face to face with her and she attacks.
Now I do preditor hunt for coyote control and hog control. While hunting I have had the cougar come within ten feet of me but back off when I yelled at her.
Now preditors such as coyotes and racoons tend to kill just to kill and not for food. So it is open season on them.
I was raised around guns and I collect guns as hobby. Antique to modern fire arms.
Now I hunt and work on a realitives ranch and I carry a handgun or rifle at all times because of a mountain lion we have on the land.
I don't activily hunt her but I have the gun to protect me if I come face to face with her and she attacks.
Now I do preditor hunt for coyote control and hog control. While hunting I have had the cougar come within ten feet of me but back off when I yelled at her.
Now preditors such as coyotes and racoons tend to kill just to kill and not for food. So it is open season on them.
Quote:
Sorry that was said more tongue in cheek, I am not going to shoot any people who own dogs and who are irresponsible... I promise.
Sorry that was said more tongue in cheek, I am not going to shoot any people who own dogs and who are irresponsible... I promise.
Quote:
I love my .22
It's a Hi Standard, HD-Military pistol.
A sweet little hand gun that fits my small hands.....and yes, it is fun to shoot.
DH knows how to pick them!
I love my .22
It's a Hi Standard, HD-Military pistol.
A sweet little hand gun that fits my small hands.....and yes, it is fun to shoot.
DH knows how to pick them!
I'm pro guns because we American's have a right to bear arms. It's just a happy coincidence that I'm able to use my .22 on predators - any chance I get.
The right to keep and bare arms is why I'm pro gun. And lets not forget the last sentence in the second amendment which is......Shall not be infringed. Oh and I was also In the Marine Corps for 10 yrs. Oooh Rah! And Semper Fi
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Not sure if I am really progun. I like that we are able to own a gun and protect our property, I like that most people are very responsible with their guns. I even like to target practice and like that I can hit that target. But I have yet to shoot at an animal ( perhaps that is why I have a husband) as I just point them out to my over eager hubby and he is so happy to get out his gun to shoot the problem. I don't have to point out too much as we have dogs that have moved most things along.
I don't like the ideals that try and tell me that guns shouldn't be at our disposal and I don't like the thought of my government taking away that right to bear arms.
I don't like the ideals that try and tell me that guns shouldn't be at our disposal and I don't like the thought of my government taking away that right to bear arms.
EMaker wrote:
ivan3 wrote:
I apologize, that was a poor analogy. A rock is an inanimate object, once thrown Newton takes over. It is locked on a specific path, once loosed, and will do a predictable amount of damage at a specific point of impact. A dog is an animate object and unpredictable once loosed. It may well sit when I tell it to and act perfectly fine as the wife calls around to see whose it is, and then it bites our grandson when he tries to pet it. How am I to know? Who is the responsible authority that allowed that dog to arrive at our coop?
When a dog, under the `authority/command' of the owner, retrieves a newspaper or a quail and returns it to the owner it is, indeed, acting as the owner's proxy. You argue that once this `agent' of the owner is killed, it becomes the responsibility of the shooter, to report to the owner all that transpired in order that the shooter's civility won't be questioned, or condemned. So, not only does the shooter have to shoot and clean up his/her dead flock, that same shooter has to report to the offending agent's ultimate authority, in order to earn respect?
A coward shirks their responsibility, so, I'd suggest setting up a blog to instruct the owners of dogs on the potential consequences of their not reigning in their rogue agents (does that work better than proxy, for ya?). It would be time better spent. The shooter is the aggrieved party, keep it in mind when spinning out opinions on the quality of the shooter's decisions about what they do, on their property. The only judgment about character that I'd hazard to make is to consider them pragmatic utilitarians, e.g., I don't waste my time burying them, I just deliver them to the turkey vulture feeding station - hate to waste the meat... Which brings me back to the subject at hand...
Hunt down an old Remington Nylon 66 (pref. a model made before they moved the manufacture of them to Brazil). It weighs 4.5lb. fully loaded with 15 rounds, effortless to hold on point, and will spit out all 15 between 5 & 8 seconds (really likes to eat hypervelocity ammo). It is an excellent tool for whatever you purpose it to, out to 125yds. One only has to swab/brush the barrel and, every ten years or so, flake a bit of carbon from the injector/sear. Good tools, amen.
EMaker wrote: It isn't the only "incivility' in this equation, but I heartily agree it is hugely uncivil! No argument from me there.
The dog owner's irresponsibility is all that matters. If all owners maintained their property responsibly, you'd not find yourself constructing a case that, for all intents and purposes, concludes that if someone throws a rock through one of my windows, I should return the rock to the thrower and be polite while doing so. As I mentioned in my original post someone else's dog on my property is the dog owner's proxy agent of trespass and potential destruction - an unguided missile loosed haphazardly. If the dog owner, instead of the dog, entered the property, got down on their hands and knees and started tearing apart the poultry (penned or not - doesn't matter - my property, yes?) and eating them raw, I'd probably wish I had some injectable haldol at hand (wouldn't shoot them, waste of everyone's time - do have a nice aluminum baseball bat for inducing anesthesia). Dogs are even less predictable and as a deputy sheriff, who laughed at the question, told me `match up slugs from a dog, you've got to be ******* me"
A secure run and coop is required, I agree. Putting down an irresponsible idiot's vermin, on our property is a burden imposed on me by idiots, that's a certainty, QED.
That most certainly is NOT the construction of my case. It is your misinterpretation of my case. Of course, I don't equate dogs and rocks, but hey, thats's just me. For goodness sakes', what a stretch, a dog is NOT a dog owner's proxy. Seriously?! Wow.
The dog owner's irresponsibility is all that matters. If all owners maintained their property responsibly, you'd not find yourself constructing a case that, for all intents and purposes, concludes that if someone throws a rock through one of my windows, I should return the rock to the thrower and be polite while doing so. As I mentioned in my original post someone else's dog on my property is the dog owner's proxy agent of trespass and potential destruction - an unguided missile loosed haphazardly. If the dog owner, instead of the dog, entered the property, got down on their hands and knees and started tearing apart the poultry (penned or not - doesn't matter - my property, yes?) and eating them raw, I'd probably wish I had some injectable haldol at hand (wouldn't shoot them, waste of everyone's time - do have a nice aluminum baseball bat for inducing anesthesia). Dogs are even less predictable and as a deputy sheriff, who laughed at the question, told me `match up slugs from a dog, you've got to be ******* me"
A secure run and coop is required, I agree. Putting down an irresponsible idiot's vermin, on our property is a burden imposed on me by idiots, that's a certainty, QED.
That most certainly is NOT the construction of my case. It is your misinterpretation of my case. Of course, I don't equate dogs and rocks, but hey, thats's just me. For goodness sakes', what a stretch, a dog is NOT a dog owner's proxy. Seriously?! Wow.
I apologize, that was a poor analogy. A rock is an inanimate object, once thrown Newton takes over. It is locked on a specific path, once loosed, and will do a predictable amount of damage at a specific point of impact. A dog is an animate object and unpredictable once loosed. It may well sit when I tell it to and act perfectly fine as the wife calls around to see whose it is, and then it bites our grandson when he tries to pet it. How am I to know? Who is the responsible authority that allowed that dog to arrive at our coop?
When a dog, under the `authority/command' of the owner, retrieves a newspaper or a quail and returns it to the owner it is, indeed, acting as the owner's proxy. You argue that once this `agent' of the owner is killed, it becomes the responsibility of the shooter, to report to the owner all that transpired in order that the shooter's civility won't be questioned, or condemned. So, not only does the shooter have to shoot and clean up his/her dead flock, that same shooter has to report to the offending agent's ultimate authority, in order to earn respect?
A coward shirks their responsibility, so, I'd suggest setting up a blog to instruct the owners of dogs on the potential consequences of their not reigning in their rogue agents (does that work better than proxy, for ya?). It would be time better spent. The shooter is the aggrieved party, keep it in mind when spinning out opinions on the quality of the shooter's decisions about what they do, on their property. The only judgment about character that I'd hazard to make is to consider them pragmatic utilitarians, e.g., I don't waste my time burying them, I just deliver them to the turkey vulture feeding station - hate to waste the meat... Which brings me back to the subject at hand...
Hunt down an old Remington Nylon 66 (pref. a model made before they moved the manufacture of them to Brazil). It weighs 4.5lb. fully loaded with 15 rounds, effortless to hold on point, and will spit out all 15 between 5 & 8 seconds (really likes to eat hypervelocity ammo). It is an excellent tool for whatever you purpose it to, out to 125yds. One only has to swab/brush the barrel and, every ten years or so, flake a bit of carbon from the injector/sear. Good tools, amen.
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