Ascites or internal laying-should i atempt draining?

[rebrascora]

Afraid I haven't got any further advice. Just wanted to offer moral support and say you are doing a great job at buying her a bit of extra time. That's all you can do with this condition, so don't feel like you are failing. After all, you have had such a huge success getting her this far. If she can make it until moult, that may buy you a few extra months, but ultimately this illness will prove fatal, so do what you can but keep an eye on her quality of life, rather than preserving life just for the sake of it.
I complete get what you are saying about lice. I have been battling a number of pests and predators this summer including rats, jackdaws and foxes as well as some illness and a persistent mite infestation in one of my coops feels like the last straw.
Hang in there, you are doing a great job!

 

[LittlePip21]

Thanks for the support rebrascora, Sorry I haven't been online, I'm away and haven't had good internet access until recently. She passed away Thursday . the day after I left. My fellow chicken keeper was with her, She died peacefully and was eating, drinking and talking right up till the end. I knew she was getting ready to go, she was extreamly thin, and had to close her eyes and rest a lot. Does anyone else have that final kind of feeling? Like you know it's close? I drained her right before I left. The fluid was green and she was so thin it was difficult. I think she just wasn't strong enough to fight off infection. But, she wasn't having any puking or other problems when she died, so that was encouraging. Really, other than being weak, she really was one of the happiest chickens I've met. I definetly think I chose the right path in draining her, my three other hens that died of this had seizures at the end, but this time my sweet girl was able to just go to sleep. Thanks for all your support, It helps to have such a great community to share with when things get rough. This is her, sunny, and these pics were taken ten days before she died, a real trooper. Thanks for all your moral support and advice, its wholeheartedly appreciated.

 

[rebrascora]

So sorry to hear you lost her, especially whilst you were away, but pleased to hear there was someone with her and she went peacefully.
You did everything you could and I'm sure others will benefit from your documentation of the experience, so many thanks for being part of the community by sharing that. The support goes both ways. Yes you have received support but your posts on this thread will no doubt, assist and inspire others to help their chickens in the future.

Best wishes

Barbara

 

[LittlePip21]

Thank you, I'm sad but I'm also glad she's out of pain now and went quickly when her health started to weaken. I look back on my past experiences with this condition and I can tell I'm learning from them and am able to take better and better care of my hens because of it. I'm hoping what I've learned will give others a bit of light to take with them if they need to walk into the unknown. Thanks again guys!

 

[atmaclean]

Thanks so much for sharing your experience with your sweet hen. She was beautiful. I’ve been reading about this condition on BYC recently. Unfortunately, I was too late to help my sweet rhodebar hen and she passed away last night as I was bringing her in to try draining the fluid. I believe she died as I was bringing her in but I decided to attempt the draining for the experience. I drained out a quart of fluid!!!! I couldn’t believe it. I feel so incredibly bad that I didn’t think to research sooner for her. Maybe i could have helped and definitely saved her some pain.

 

[rebrascora]

@atmaclean

Don't feel bad. Firstly, draining her would at best only have prolonged her life for a short time and she may have gone into shock as a result of doing it or it may have introduced an infection which would have taken her down quickly. The fluid build up is just a symptom of an underlying problem that is usually irreversible.
Secondly, none of us know all about everything and the way we learn is through experience. Your thought process in draining her after death is a very good one and shows your intention to use this situation to improve your knowledge. If you feel able to, cutting her open to find out what was causing the ascites can be beneficial, both to yourself and also others that might read this post if you are able to take and post photos. This is how I have gained my knowledge of these issues..... none of us are born with this understanding....we figure it out as we see for ourselves and from other peoples photos and descriptions of symptoms. My guess would be that your girl was probably laying internally as that is the most likely cause of ascites in hens but a poor diet (too much scratch and other carbohydrates) and not enough exercise can also cause it via fatty liver haemorrhagic syndrome or heart failure which can cause ascites. If this was the cause, then you might be able to prevent other deaths in your flock by modifying their diet. Having a look inside them after they die can also really improve your understanding of how their system works. I use it as an opportunity to check for worms in their gut too which helps me to know if I need to worm my flock. Some people get peace of mind from finding an incurable ailment when they open their dead chicken up.... ie there was nothing they could have done that would have made her better.

I accept that not everyone can cope with the idea of it or are just too squeamish, but you seem to me to be a person with an enquiring mind and therefore maybe just need a little encouragement. If you want any advice on how to go about it, please feel free to ask and if you can take photos and post them, we have a thread where we share DIY necropsy photos and information and discuss possible diagnosis which I can post a link to.

Regards

Barbara

 

[LittlePip21]

Thanks so much for sharing your experience with your sweet hen. She was beautiful. I’ve been reading about this condition on BYC recently. Unfortunately, I was too late to help my sweet rhodebar hen and she passed away last night as I was bringing her in to try draining the fluid. I believe she died as I was bringing her in but I decided to attempt the draining for the experience. I drained out a quart of fluid!!!! I couldn’t believe it. I feel so incredibly bad that I didn’t think to research sooner for her. Maybe i could have helped and definitely saved her some pain.

Like Rebrascora said, don't feel bad, just know that her life was able to help any future chickens that might develop it, im sure she knew how much you cared. I actually lost three girls to ascites before this, on the third I decided to cut her open after she died. It was hard, but I imedietly realized what it was, after some helpful posts from byc members. I'll link it down below if you want to read it. I always have to remember that I did my best with the knowledge I had, and each instance I will rise above this by learning more and more, to better care for my hens. I remember how happy sunny was, even a few days before she died. I had set up a baby crib in the garage for her, and made it so one side would swing open. I'd let her out of her pen in the evening and she'd run to in there and jump up into her bed. Thanks for sharing! I'm glad this was able to encourage and give you insight! https://www.backyardchickens.com/posts/18036140/

 

[atmaclean]

Thank you both for the kind words. I watched the necropsy video on the hen with the internal laying. I want to do it but I just can’t bring myself to it yet. The fact that I even watched the necropsy video was huge for me. I am extremely nervous about doing it but i will get there. I’ve had to clean maggots out of wounds, drain abscesses, remove hanging skin, clean and dress massive wounds and many other gross tasks. Cutting through skin, however, is a hurdle i have yet to conquer. We have a lot of horses, dogs, cats, etc and I’ve had to do some pretty gross stuff so you would think I could do it . Now that I know what it is, I know that I have had probably 3 hens die with this over the past 12 years or so. I am relatively sure she didn’t have worms but who knows. I deworm my flock with valbazen and treat them with frontline (to prevent mites/lice) twice a year and it was when we were deworming last weekend that I noticed she wasn’t quite “right”. I also don’t believe she had the internal laying syndrome. I palpated her abdomen after she passed and didn’t feel any mass. I believe that she may have had the liver or some other internal organ failure...just my gut feeling. Fortunately my flock free ranges on the farm all day and they go up into their coop at night. I feed both fermented feed and pelleted feed - usually Nutrena but when we can we get an all natural feed from a local Feed manufacturer I get that too. I also give them some handfuls of fermented corn - actually that is for my guineas (to keep them coming back to the coop area at night) but the chickens also partake in the leftovers. We also throw out any food scraps and since I am a teacher, I collect all the unwanted fruit at lunch (apples, bananas, pears) and feed to the horses but the chickens occasionally get some. I also have free choice oyster shell out for them. I alternate giving them probiotics in their water or apple cider vinegar. She was at least 4 years old and I am not sure she was still laying. My eldest hen is almost 6 and she has severe crossbeak, (thus the fermented soft food). The others range down to my youngest of just a few months old. I guess I have about 50 chickens and 70 guineas. I have learned to handle farm deaths a little better than I did years ago but it is still very sad to lose one of the girls. Mine all have names and unique personalities as I’m sure you know! Thank you both again for the info and kind words. You are so right in that we learn and become educated as we observe and deal with every incident with our chickens.

 

[casportpony]

Thanks so much for sharing your experience with your sweet hen. She was beautiful. I’ve been reading about this condition on BYC recently. Unfortunately, I was too late to help my sweet rhodebar hen and she passed away last night as I was bringing her in to try draining the fluid. I believe she died as I was bringing her in but I decided to attempt the draining for the experience. I drained out a quart of fluid!!!! I couldn’t believe it. I feel so incredibly bad that I didn’t think to research sooner for her. Maybe i could have helped and definitely saved her some pain.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[casportpony]

@atmaclean , I understand you not wanting to do a necropsy, but if you do find a way to do it you will almost certainly see the underlying cause of the ascites, and that will make you feel better about not draining soon enough.