Ascites?? Swollen, squishy abdomen - WITH PICS & VIDEO (page 9)

[tamtam84]

My Golden Laced Wyandotte, Buttercup, is 2.5 years old. About a week ago I noticed her acting lethargic and her tail was droopy. She got better, but since yesterday she seems worse. Tail down, abdomen very swollen and squishy, and she has what looks like egg yolk on her fluff under her vent.



When I tried to clean off her fluff, she put her tail down and didn't want me to mess with it. Her vent looks normal, moist and pink (couldn't get a close up of that). Here's what she has on her fluff, my husband says it is definitely egg yolk.



She hasn't layed in quite some time. She started her molt back in November and hasn't started laying again yet. The previous year after her molt she was laying again in early February.

The area where her fluff is (her abdomen/bottom) seems very large and is squishy. I don't feel anything hard in there so I don't think she's eggbound. It just seems like there's a lot of fluid. I would say that it feels like it's swollen to about the size of a softball or larger.

I've been researching and found threads where people drained the fluid, but ultimately it was fatal for the hen. I want to take her to the vet, but my husband thinks if it's going to kill her anyway he doesn't want to spend any money for a visit/medicine. The last hen we took to the vet died the next day so we were out close to $100 for nothing (I think the visit stressed her out majorly and she was already so weak that she passed that night in her coop).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to see my Buttercup go, but if it is going to kill her I want to know so I can be prepared. I have a bad feeling.

 

[terryg]

If the chicken has ascites, then there is an underlying issue which is causing the fluid build-up. So, you can drain it, but that doesn't cure it. I've had chickens that died of ascites, and others from internal laying. Chickens can live for a long time with diseases. We can keep them alive, but it is a difficult judgement call to know when they are suffering and when to let them go. Chickens, being prey animals, don't show weakness until they are very sick. It makes our job that much harder. In the many years I've had chickens, I've learned that when they no longer roost, that they're really hurting. It sounds like you have access to a vet with some knowledge, and to financial resources that allow you to pursue keeping her alive. I wish you and your hen the best! I've written about the challenge of knowing when a chicken should be euthanized here:http://www.hencam.com/henblog/2011/09/end-of-life-decisions/

 

[arkansaschicks]

Terry- thank you for the spa treatment info. I have been on your site before and followed your instructions on the epsom salt treatment for vent gleet. I did it several times and felt it was making a difference. I just was unable to see if it would help her over the long term because Georgia fell off the roost and broke her leg about two weeks after I started it. I'm sure the girls will love a spa treatment!!
Like Tamtam said your article was very well written and I'm sure is very helpful!! I think it does help to understand that there are a lot of things that can happen to chickens and you just have to be prepared to lose them. It is just difficult when you do. I'm glad to hear Eleanor made it through the ascites. Gives me hope that some of my girls might live to be 7 or older

 

[guesswhatchickenbutt]

guesswhatchickenbutt - Oh that's fabulous! Please share any knowledge you get from the vet. And let me know if I have been doing anything wrong! I might need to revise my video haha. Good luck!

Our vet was great. I told him I'd been researching online like a madwoman and I suspected it was - and he cut me off and said "egg yolk peritonitis?" I said yeah.... He said he was impressed I'd figured it out online and that he suspected it a month ago when I was describing her symptoms, but hoped it was not because it is uncurable once the symptoms show up.

He brought her into an exam room and said her belly is very full. He showed me different needle types and said that smaller needles are easier on their skin, but the fluid often has chunks in it, which can get stuck and then prevents the needle from draining her. The first one he tried didn't work (it was a butterfly type needle with flexible tubing on it which he said is better for jumpy animals and birds since it has give to it and won't pull out of them if they move). It was too small and no fluid was drained. He then switched to a 20 gauge and a large syringe. He had a hard time pulling out much fluid at first. He showed me the bits of floating egg yolk in it. The fluid was brownish-yellow with floaty bits. He left the needle in and held it in with his hand and disconnected the syringe, then squirted the syringe into the sink to empty it, then hooked it back on to the needle and tried again. He got quite a bit out, but he said it's probably too far along and "chunky" to get much more out.

I asked him if I could hurt her by putting the syringe in the wrong place. He said to AVOID putting it in the puffiness in straight line under her vent because that can easily pierce the colon, and she'd die within hours. He said to always do it off to one side - kind of like where her skin would touch the ground if she were sitting - either on the left side or right side. We both agreed that if I punctured her colon it would only speed up the inevitable anyway and it was a risk worth taking, but obviously I'll do my best to avoid that.

He also said to drain her no more than every other day at most. He said to be on the safe side, never re-use the needle and clean her skin before and after with an alcohol swab. He said the poo bacteria from the rear end can be on the skin and when you poke it you can introduce a bit of that bacteria, which won't help things along.

He also said that the reason she's opening and closing her beak all the time is because the fluid is pressing on her organs and making it harder for her to breathe. He said the way a bird's organs are arranged makes it great for flying, but not good for dealing with any kind of internal peritonitis.

So he gave me 4 needles and a syringe and told me good luck and to call him if she stops eating and drinking and we'd put her down. He spent 45 min's with us and charged me $4 total for the 4 needles. How lucky am I?

Here she is in the exam room waiting for the vet and vet tech to come back with the needles for us.




I asked him about my BR because she's skinny and not laying. He said she's either in the early stages of EYP or there are some cases where a hen will have EYP and reabsorb the fluid and then he said something about scar tissue building up and blocking the oviduct, sort of sterilizing the chicken. If this is the case, she'll be sterile, but can't lay anymore eggs and may fully recover from EYP (since no more yolk can travel into her abdominal cavity). If her belly starts to swell we'll know that didn't happen.....

So I guess that's it. I have spent months not knowing what's wrong... and here I am today knowing what's wrong, having it confirmed by a vet and learning how to make her more comfortable while we wait for the inevitable to happen. I'm sad, but very glad that I've learned from this.

Hope this helps someone else out there too! Sheesh - there should be an EYP support group

 

[tamtam84]

Hey artsyrobin -

So sorry you are having to deal with this. I made a video of how I drained Buttercup so you can check that out here if you want -

Feel free to PM me with any other questions you might have if you aren't finding the answer on this thread. Good luck!

 

[arkansaschicks]

I had a couple of hens that had the same kind of eggs you were talking about and I just really increased their calcium. I gave them cottage cheese, yogurt, oatmeal and spinach,kale and collards greens. I researched things that were high in calcium and gave them tons of it. I would put flax seeds, sesame seeds and almonds in a chopper and mix that with the oatmeal or yogurt. It is extra work and money but my chickens are my babies. It is just a suggestion but it worked for me. We have a big gardener guy here in Arkansas that is also into chickens and he had a GREAT chicken workshop and he had people speak on how important nutrition is for the chickens. The Purina representive stressed how the right food needs to be given to the right age birds. Your older birds really need lots of calcium because the are using it for their eggs and if they aren't getting enough their body is robbing it from their bones. It is good to offer oyster shell but how do we know if they are really eating it. Sometimes I don't think mine are eating much of it. Then on the flip side the calcium can hurt the young ones. It is really hard to juggle the food when adding new chicks.

About the egg eater, I have never had that problem. I am curious if there is anything that can be done to stop that. I might do a little search on that.
Hope your eggs get better and again I don't know for sure if extra calcium will fix the problem. If this hen is one of your favorites them I would certainly try to do all that you can. I have saved several of my girls by just caring and trying things. Those have been times others have said "just cull it cause it won't get better".
It is always worth a try

 

[cchic]

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Egg peritonitis is NOT incurable! Soft shells and other egg problems - causes and cures
By: Luvmy9hens
Posted 12/1/13 • Last updated 12/1/13 • 218 views • 4 comments
BACKGROUND: Ellie is a 15 month old "Self Blue Old English" hen that I raised from hatching. The eggs were sent from Cobb's Bantams in Lavonia Georgia and hatched by our beautiful broody hen Zebra Mama. Pics 1 and 2 below - Zebra and Ellie

Ellie was happy and healthy and grew into a beautiful little hen who was as faithful and loving as a hen could be.
Pics below were taken July 2013 Ellie at 11 Months old.

Some time in late October at the age of 14 months, Ellie began to spend a lot of time in the coop in one of the nesting boxes. She is such a tiny little girl (400 grams/14 ounces) and was too young (in my opinion) to be going broody! Day after day, I noticed more and more feathers missing especially on her abdomen which was nearly bare in early November. It was then that I brought her inside due to the cold temperatures at night. I knew that Ellie was experiencing her first molt which, in my opinion, was severe. I supplemented her diet with hard boiled eggs for the extra protein needed for feather development.

SYMPTOMS: On the night of November 26, I came home to a very sick little hen. Her behavior included hiding, fluffing up feathers, lethargy, and avoiding food (but drinking). Physically, Ellie looked tattered due to her lack of grooming. Her crop was "watery" due to excess drinking, her comb was pale and laying flat, she had abnormal droppings (watery/green), and a stooped posture with a lowered tail. Her abdomen was soft but not grossly enlarged. As I swept the floor, the broom picked up a thick substance in a darkened corner. YUCK! Upon close inspection, I realized that what I had swept up was runny yolk and egg white with no shell. Ellie would not eat, and could barely walk to the closest dark corner where she wanted to hide. I did not believe that she would last the night. The next morning (November 27), she was still alive and needed immediate veterinary services. My husband brought her in to Champlain Valley Veterinary Services where she stayed for 3 days.

DIAGNOSIS: "peritonitis due to the inability to form a shelled egg".

CURE: After 2 X-rays to rule out the possibility of being egg-bound, Ellie was treated with baytril 100 and calcium gluconate 10% injections.

CAUSE: This is something that could have been prevented. I have read several sources that indicate that it is OK to switch laying hens to either chick starter or grower during the molting period to boost protein intake. While the extra protein is beneficial to feather growth, feeds that are meant for developing chicks lack the calcium necessary for laying hens to form egg shells. If the egg (yolk and white) break inside the body, peritonitis can rapidly develop.

NOTES: While Ellie was staying at the vet hospital, she expelled the soft shell that had broken inside her body on day 2 of her stay. We picked her up on day 3 and are happy to report that she is...acting like a typical chicken! The picture below is the soft egg shell that was expelled after the second round of antibiotic treatments. Notice the blood in the sample.

If a hen experiencing ANY of the above symptoms, she needs treatment. While laying a shell-less egg could be a "fluke", it could also be a death sentence for your hen if left untreated. Her behavior and physical appearance should be closely monitored. Birds do hide their illness VERY WELL! Our vet said that peritonitis is NOT a death sentence and the birds do NOT need to be culled. The condition is VERY curable as she has treated many exotic parrots with the same condition. The key here is to catch it early and treat accordingly!!

WARNING: After treating a chicken with antibiotics, any eggs produced within the first 60 days should not be eaten and the meat should not be consumed at all. This was stated on the veterinarian's bill per New York State law due to the fact that Ellie is a "food animal".
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Comments (4)


Nutcase 12/1/13 at 5:00pmThanks for this interesting article. I lost a hen to egg peritonitis last year.

Luvmy9hens 12/4/13 at 4:08pmSo sorry for your loss It is difficult when you become attached to the sweet little hens. I was not sure that Ellie would survive but I had to do what I could regardless of the cost. I had previously lost 2 other hens (displaying similar symptoms) over the past year. If this article could help to save the life of just one hen, then my goal was reached.

MaPa26 12/11/13 at 4:07pmThank you for telling your story. This is our first year with chickens. We had several eggs with soft shells during the first couple of months that they started laying. I couldn't tell which hen or hens was responsible. We did try to make sure they were getting plenty of calcium. If one had gotten sick, I wouldn't have had a clue what was wrong. If one acts like she is sick, I will get her to the vet, ASAP. I know our vet treats chickens. Back last summer, I was there with one of our dogs and I mentioned that we had gotten chickens and he said they see them, too! Good to know, I said.

Luvmy9hens 12/14/13 at 6:13pmAlways good to know of a vet who will treat chickens BEFORE you need one!
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BackYard Chickens › Member Pages › Egg Peritonitis Is Not Incurable Soft Shells And Other Egg Problems Causes And Cures

 

[tamtam84]

@IndigoRaven - I'm sorry to hear about your Cochin. The fact that she is still laying eggs is a good sign I think. Maybe that means her fluid is due to fatty liver disease and in that case, the milk thistle should help. I've never used it though so I can't advise on that. If her abdomen stays full of fluid, I'd recommend draining her to make her more comfortable. I had to do that with my Buttercup every month or so to remove the fluid that accumulated. In case you aren't sure how to do it, I posted my experience and advice earlier in this thread. You can always send me a message and I'll try to help if I can. Good luck!

 

[Romochickencrazy]

She may have an egg that broke inside of her. Did read up on this once but will have to look back to give you any suggestion. If I do recall correctly it did say something about soaking her rear end. I'll have to get back to you though....

 

[tamtam84]

@Romochickencrazy - Thanks for the reply. I'll look more into that possibility.