First, please understand I am NOT reopening the argument about tail barring. However, since I am still relatively new to the Heritage Delaware, having only had them since November of '09, I thought I would contact the APA and some other Delaware breeders and see what they could tell me about the SOP definition, and what they felt was the correct coloration. A few other BYC people also contacted some experts. This is merely the report of the info collected.
You can make of this info what you wish. One thing I did do, and will continue to check on to make sure there is follow up, is this- I contacted the head of the APA Standards Committee and told him about our "discussion" and my thoughts about the vagueness of the definition. He has promised to forward my concerns and emails, containing the info below, to his committee members.
I was disappointed in how few people responded to my queries, but this is what I got.
Two members of the APA board at the time the SOP was approved were gracious enough to respond.
Danny Padgett, and I have permission to quote him, said there was NO Green Sheen in the tail barring of the roo or the tail black of the hen.
The other member who responded ( I do not have permission YET to quote him) said the way he would interpret the standard on this issue was that "if the committee wanted the black to have green sheen they would have added that statement to the color description of the Delaware" and that "unless you are referred to another color section you have to assume that the color listed under the breed page is correct and it does not list a green sheen" which means NO Green Sheen.
Another APA judge (another one I am waiting on permission to quote) said NO Green Sheen
Sounds simple so far, huh? But here is where is gets hairy. The BREEDERS do not agree. And I am leaving BYC breeders out of this right now- we all know what we said. I am reporting what the non BYC breeders have said. I contacted a LOT of them, mostly on the yahoo Delaware group site. Unfortunately, very few have responded at this point.
We already know that Bill Braden says NO Green Sheen and Janet Holtman (seriousbill) says YES, there IS Green Sheen. They were quoted in our discussion on the Delaware thread.
Four other breeders that are not, as far as I know, on this website, responded to my emails. Two of them are members of the yahoo Delaware group, two are members of the yahoo Heritage chicken group. Of those four, three said YES there is Green Sheen and one said NO Green Sheen.
One of the yes's in the breeder group is considered a foremost authority on Heritage breeds. Another is a name that has cropped up here in discussion. The NO green sheen is a long time breeder in Delaware.
So this is what I have found out so far- there is still disagreement. Again, I have asked the APA to research and clarify this matter so we can all be on the same page. I understand this could impact breeding programs. Heck, it could impact mine- I may have to end up stewing my roo! But to me it is not important WHO is right, or if I am right. It is important that the right thing be done - and that right thing to me is that the APA contacts breeders and judges and gathers a lot of information before they clarify this issue.
I would like to ask Delaware lovers on BYC to contact the APA (American Poultry Association) Standards Committee head, Mr. Walt Leonard. His email is on the APA site. Please urge him to research this thoroughly and to clarify the definition in a way that everyone can understand it, and all breeders can get on the same page. I think we have a chance to make an impact.
Tell Mr. Leonard what you think, tell him what breeders you know have to say. He has been gracious and prompt in answering my emails and in promising the committee would look at the issue. But since breeders are in such disagreement, I think they need to look at the standard. Mr. Leonard told me it has not been questioned since it was put in there in 1952. There are no notes attached, nothing to indicate a problem before. But that still leaves the question of why there is such disagreement amongst breeders on the subject. Where did the original description come from?
And one last thought - And this is just a thought out of my head, I have not been given any hints this could happen - it may be that the committee decides to allow two looks, or two strains, depending on the weight breeders carry with the APA in making those definitions. Somewhere, someone has to come up with proof that it is one way or the other, or has been both ways from the beginning. What did those first Delawares really look like?
Sorry to be so long winded. Just reporting what I did, and what happened!
Just to interject a little humor- I did find out how to wash a Delaware to diminish the green sheen- evidently vinegar takes it out!
You can make of this info what you wish. One thing I did do, and will continue to check on to make sure there is follow up, is this- I contacted the head of the APA Standards Committee and told him about our "discussion" and my thoughts about the vagueness of the definition. He has promised to forward my concerns and emails, containing the info below, to his committee members.
I was disappointed in how few people responded to my queries, but this is what I got.
Two members of the APA board at the time the SOP was approved were gracious enough to respond.
Danny Padgett, and I have permission to quote him, said there was NO Green Sheen in the tail barring of the roo or the tail black of the hen.
The other member who responded ( I do not have permission YET to quote him) said the way he would interpret the standard on this issue was that "if the committee wanted the black to have green sheen they would have added that statement to the color description of the Delaware" and that "unless you are referred to another color section you have to assume that the color listed under the breed page is correct and it does not list a green sheen" which means NO Green Sheen.
Another APA judge (another one I am waiting on permission to quote) said NO Green Sheen
Sounds simple so far, huh? But here is where is gets hairy. The BREEDERS do not agree. And I am leaving BYC breeders out of this right now- we all know what we said. I am reporting what the non BYC breeders have said. I contacted a LOT of them, mostly on the yahoo Delaware group site. Unfortunately, very few have responded at this point.
We already know that Bill Braden says NO Green Sheen and Janet Holtman (seriousbill) says YES, there IS Green Sheen. They were quoted in our discussion on the Delaware thread.
Four other breeders that are not, as far as I know, on this website, responded to my emails. Two of them are members of the yahoo Delaware group, two are members of the yahoo Heritage chicken group. Of those four, three said YES there is Green Sheen and one said NO Green Sheen.
One of the yes's in the breeder group is considered a foremost authority on Heritage breeds. Another is a name that has cropped up here in discussion. The NO green sheen is a long time breeder in Delaware.
So this is what I have found out so far- there is still disagreement. Again, I have asked the APA to research and clarify this matter so we can all be on the same page. I understand this could impact breeding programs. Heck, it could impact mine- I may have to end up stewing my roo! But to me it is not important WHO is right, or if I am right. It is important that the right thing be done - and that right thing to me is that the APA contacts breeders and judges and gathers a lot of information before they clarify this issue.
I would like to ask Delaware lovers on BYC to contact the APA (American Poultry Association) Standards Committee head, Mr. Walt Leonard. His email is on the APA site. Please urge him to research this thoroughly and to clarify the definition in a way that everyone can understand it, and all breeders can get on the same page. I think we have a chance to make an impact.
Tell Mr. Leonard what you think, tell him what breeders you know have to say. He has been gracious and prompt in answering my emails and in promising the committee would look at the issue. But since breeders are in such disagreement, I think they need to look at the standard. Mr. Leonard told me it has not been questioned since it was put in there in 1952. There are no notes attached, nothing to indicate a problem before. But that still leaves the question of why there is such disagreement amongst breeders on the subject. Where did the original description come from?
And one last thought - And this is just a thought out of my head, I have not been given any hints this could happen - it may be that the committee decides to allow two looks, or two strains, depending on the weight breeders carry with the APA in making those definitions. Somewhere, someone has to come up with proof that it is one way or the other, or has been both ways from the beginning. What did those first Delawares really look like?
Sorry to be so long winded. Just reporting what I did, and what happened!
Just to interject a little humor- I did find out how to wash a Delaware to diminish the green sheen- evidently vinegar takes it out!
Last edited:
