Attention Delaware Lovers: Please Read! NEW UPDATE POST #23

[speckledhen]

Gosh, you'd think these APA guys would be happy to be able to spread their brand of wisdom, that they'd be glad so many are interested in the issues with this breed. They aren't willing to help other than say "Join the APA!", seems to me. Do they have a secret handshake we have to learn before we get some real "in the trenches" help? I do not join clubs. I do not show. I do not want to do either, but if I was still breeding Delawares, I'd want to work toward what they should be. That is part of preserving a breed.

No one here ever said they had show quality Delawares. We are all working toward the goal of meeting the standard and most of us won't show due to the disease risk. I do not want a drawing- I want a photograph of a Delaware rooster these judges feel actually meets the Standard. I'm betting they have never seen one live and in the flesh. Till then, we are all interpreting someone else's interpretation of the standard drawn in pen and ink. To criticize and snub and nothing else doesn't help any one breed better Delawares. I'd like to see some logic and common sense injected into the sheen issue, among others. To say the bantam has sheen and the LF doesn't is completely illogical.

I may not understand completely the purpose of the APA, but teaching is part of it, no? I prefer the method where you tell someone what they are doing right, not just what they are doing wrong, and giving examples of what the goal is. The pencil drawing and the cartoonish painting in the SOP just aren't as useful as they should be. If the Delawares from well known breeders are so awful, then when you do see one in a show, why should it get a blue ribbon? Just because it's the best of the ones who were entered? What if it's not good according to the SOP, barring actual disqualifiersl, but the best of that batch at the show? Can they refuse to hand out a blue ribbon? If not, then the winner can say his bird won at an APA-sanctioned show and is show quality and charge major bucks for chicks and eggs. And how much is politics, as it is in dog shows and horse shows? Does a certain breeder's name just carry weight, even if his stock is really not up to snuff?

To quote the great Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say 'bout that". Best of luck trying to find the information and clarification you need, folks.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
x2..

 

[kathyinmo]

I have been corresponding with Mr. Leonard, as well. I have asked him to show us a picture of a live Delaware that is close to the SOP. I will share it, if he sends one.

 

[joletabey]

Just a quick update to let you know the issue is still being worked on. Mr Leonard says he hopes there will be a definite clarification sometime next week. There are "plenty of people looking at it". He said that they have been looking at pictures and the green sheen seems to show up in birds with incorrect or incomplete barring, and that barring usually kills sheen. The sheen has something to do with the NH showing through, but it is still in the incorrectly barred birds. He also apologized for his statement that the ABA standard mentions the green sheen, and said that he had pulled an old standard. The last two ABA standards do NOT mention sheen.

I believe he also understands that our Del breeding programs are works in progress and that what we want is clarification of what we are to work TOWARDS.

More as I know more.

 

[jeremy]

 

[speckledhen]

 

[alicefelldown]

 

[herechickchick]

Cyn you make great points. I hate the illustrations as well. It clearly states in the books that they are the artists interpretation of the standard and that is fine but it still a subjective image based on how the artist sees it. I think the main problem is that you will never see photos in either book of each breed because the perfect bird does not, has not and most likely will not ever exist. It also drives me nuts that the APA and the ABA descriptions are not the same and one may include color varieties the other does not, why? It is very aggravating. Oh and my Delaware bantams had green sheen on the roosters and none on the hens and were from Dick Horstman.

ETA: I am glad that the 2 organizations are working together to correct these problems but it is sad to hear that they are slow to respond if at all to the people who depend on the books for their breeding programs.

 

[aveca]

I know how tough this subject is, Im dealing withn this in an entirely different breed but lets just say someone way back when wrong headedly added a look alike breed In this case the breeds at that time looked a lot alike and were probably added by accident in the case of the breed Im working with. Im not a quitter and wont give up People said ... you need to turn to breeders,. Well let me tell you...just try thst 12 years and couldnt find any , a few that thought they had some and I picked up a bird or 2 here or there along the way, birds I thought I could work with....all of the breeders live in Australia. there really are only a scant few people here working on this. and rare as hens teeth trying to make a contact, only after 12 years of not giving up, I finnaly met a few people who have this breed and heres a kicker.......all along the were east coast champions live right up the street pretty much , I never knew they were there..found them by accident...I ran ads everywhere....on line and at feed stores anything I could think of and all along just up the street a family just got back from the state of maryland with a big win... I didnt know about them because they were always out on the road showing and selecting birds for the breeding pens ect arranging educational programs about poultry for youth.....they deal with more than one breed, they started adding the correct foundation breeds back in to correct problems and they are doing a fantastic job.. Just this last year met another breeder hes got some knockout birds and again working out the problems and thinking it throu.. hes quite a nice person and we are going to do an egg swap next spring. Im buying birds from the neighbors with the great birds

In the case of the deleware , an old timer told me that after 2 world wars women started to enter the work force , and commercial breeds moved in like the giant breasted cornish and crosses on commercial farms , lots of these wonderful old breeds darned near went extinct.were his words. The numbers dwindled so such a dangerous level that they had to turn to light sussex and columbian just to have something silimilar to offer for sale at hatcheries. This is why the deleware remains on critically endangered list as there are a few people who have the real dels,. Ive seen therm out around at the shows but they are very hard to get ahold of..One gives lectures on heritage breeds and has won pretty much everything with thier birds..I just read a lecture he gave at a university ag dept I can try and see If I can find it again..One of the things I remember him saying was how many birds he went rhough to get it right and he is a farmer first so they eat a lot of thier culls and raise cattle as well for show........

After ww1 and 2 in europe there were so many breeds that are no more (extinct) We posted a list of those birds with old drawings and photos they no longer exist...there is a man I met who is working up a fever trying to re-create 2 of those breeds.. I think as breeders we all have to strive to find as many foundation birds as we possibly can and work out the kinks and beleive me, I have lots of kinks to work out..Im going to the big APA show in Bath NY sept 12 buying birds and talking to owners and da judges. from what they have told me so far , find founding birds, then work out the problems as best you can.

Its an interesting subject and deserves working toward perfection always, some breeds like RIR you can jump right inot, these heritage breeds a lot tougher and takes a lot of searching and researching. Ive had to tell myself several times , nope thats not right.I bought a rooster as my breed choice, he had everything right about him except a little large which I thought was orp which is correct and had a leghorn look which would be correct and you can work with it...turns out he was a jersey giant only hatched with lorp correct colors like white skin and soles on feet, problem thou, he kept throwing yellow soles and skin on chicks ,,,sad cause perfect stright combs on those chicks looked like great foundation birds you could draw a plumb line down the combs they were so straight.and one cockeral had perfect 5 points , nice eye and yellow soles on feet so had to make a hgard decision..sold the rooster as produces giants, I always thought he was huge due to the blk orp in ancestry..turns out I was wrong..

Little like the preswalskis horse they tried to recreate it with look alike horses, buts thats all they ever were , look a likes. That breed of horse is extinct thou thrilling to see the woirk that was done..its only eye appeal and after 50 years of working on it they realised that. they preswalskis had a tail little like a donkey not a lot of hair the one they recreated was same color but sadly the genes are gone. ..Dont be afraid if some of the old timers tell you critically what you need to do, I take it all in stride and let myself go home and think about what they say...at first I buck it then it settles in and i know what I need to do .. pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get this great american breed back to its former glory..very important breed to work with and get right. The winners Ive seen had no green sheen a dull grey barring some darker than others and because numbers are so low they told me the roosters will often go infertile quite young thats another reason they added the sussex to boost fetility. They try to breed the boys in first 2 years and send them out to show when they start to slow on chicks dept and some of them fertility drops so after that just enjoy them out showing them . they really try to pump out as many babies as they can and dont show or stress them in any way. not like they arnt pampered pets at those shows, most are the APA one day shows which is great. thou some of them settle right in at the longer shows and almost seem to enjoy the admiration. and they eat like little kings too.

Keep up the good work, lets not loose this wonderful old breed go the way of those old extinct eurpoean breeds., dont be afraid to reach deep and think cause the truth is like cream eventually it weill rise to the top. little by little start hunting down the best of the best. I have a freind in ridgbury pa who is a deleware nut, he travels all over seeking dels and turns down a lot, he just bought some pullets from new jersey ..hes trying to get set up for a breeding program and is he fussy..I dont understand whats hes talking about in hens of that breed but he sure knows them.I guess his dad had them many years ago so he grew up with them and knows exactly what he wants..I have some birds who can smell a fertile egg and go to work being broody and hatched out some eggs for him...so hes thrilled. He right off the bat got a sport first year when trying to build foundation birds so hes keeping that bird to add back in , its interesting project..cant remember what birds he put together to get it but I think one was RIR ..fun to watch his progress...hes not really computer literate cuae I keep asking hij to send me pics he said one of these days he will corner his kids to do it for him. He uses the incubator but prefers the broodys cause when he works 12 hour shifts anything can go wrong with the bators temps humid ect even the good ones occasioanlly screw up but hes gotten a lot o good birds out of them, he said he just doesnt worry as much shen he has a good broody at work.

Here is the cockeral in questions feet, Now I can try to work him in somehow, but this was a ddecision had to make decided to sell them as produces giants and giant colors..there are issues with the breed I chose in the show ring as well... you see 2 different types of bird, large fluffy feather lorps and smaller tighter feathereed birds , I stick with the british standard and australian standard on this subject ..somewhere inbetween is the truth their standard calls for tighter feathered bird so cross the 2 and getting close to perfect. As for that rooster and his offspring, they were sold out and the hens came from differnet sources..not going to delude myself or try to talk myself into thinking this will somehow work itself out, Im just buying 2 new cockerals and with any luck a few good pullets this fall. This guy went to a new farm.

a very good del rooster

Heres one of my husbands lorps cross hens raising a couple dels for my freind.
shes a backyard bird for sure but best mother in the world so we keep her. swear she can smell a fertile egg and drops everything to go sit on it. hee hee