ATTENTION NEWBIES TO INCUBATING

[Daedalus62]

Thanks for this thread/information, Tim... And good luck with your 1st hatch in your new incubator!!

Now, for a more difficult question/doubt (for me at least!)... Hope the more experienced people can help here...

I understand the eggs weight loss percentage ratio, however...

Suppose I'm weighting the entire egg trays (easier and FASTER than each egg individually)... In each tray I have eggs with embryos developing and others that are not (I have some dark brown eggs that are really hard to tell at this stage (day 7)).

Question: Do ALL eggs (developing embryos and non developing embryos) loose weight at the same rate?... If not, how can we trust/control humidity using the "weight loss method", with such tight weight loss % ratios?...

Hope this (my doubt!) makes sense... And that I'm not overcomplicating!!... Noob things

Cheers

Carlos

 

[HickoryHollow]

Thanks for this thread/information, Tim... And good luck with your 1st hatch in your new incubator!!

Now, for a more difficult question/doubt (for me at least!)... Hope the more experienced people can help here...

I understand the eggs weight loss percentage ratio, however...

Suppose I'm weighting the entire egg trays (easier and FASTER than each egg individually)... In each tray I have eggs with embryos developing and others that are not (I have some dark brown eggs that are really hard to tell at this stage (day 7)).

Question: Do ALL eggs (developing embryos and non developing embryos) loose weight at the same rate?... If not, how can we trust/control humidity using the "weight loss method", with such tight weight loss % ratios?...

Hope this (my doubt!) makes sense... And that I'm not overcomplicating!!... Noob things

Cheers

Carlos

Carlos,
Good points. I have found a lot of information about this method of incubation. I hope it is ok to post a link to another site on here.

(Rule #10
Do not promote other websites that are "similar" to BackYardChickens, especially similar forums.
Quote:
(This my intent)

http://poultrykeeper.com/incubating-and-hatching-eggs/weight-loss-method-forl-incubation

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/577310/a-guide-to-humidity-weighing-and-lockdown

http://www.browneggblueegg.com/Article/MonitoringEggWeightLoss.html

 

[Melabella]

HickoryHollow

Thanks for starting this thread. I am not only a newbie, I am a complete worry wort when it comes to these eggs. I have a flock of 10 who give me wonderful eggs, and am on lockdown with my little Brinsea Advance Mini, and learning as I go. I have a wonderful black/lav split Ameraucana roo, and one Ameraucana hen, with the remaining 8 girls a variety of breeds. Started with 7, 4 made it to lockdown, 3 Ameraucana and one Barred Rock egg,,and as I type 2 have the smallest little holes since last night with not much more going on. I am following with eyes wide open. I will be amazed if I get even one chick despite my ignorance to this whole process. I want to learn more, as many of my friends are asking me to hatch out these beautiful blue eggs for them. I also just sold 12 of the brown eggs to a boy for a dollar for a 4H project. I tried to give them to him for free, but he said he wanted to record something on his expenses list. How cute is that? He was happy to find eggs sired by an Ameraucana roo laid by my other breeds as he wanted to hatch Easter Eggers. what sweety he is!

Also I want to note, whenever I see a post from Sally Sunshine, I drop anchor, and pour another cup of coffee. So happy to have peeps to learn from in here. Thank you Sally!

Good Luck, and post often!
MB

 

[Ridgerunner]

Different eggs lose moisture at different rates. Some egg shells are more porous or thinner than others. Some have more watery whites than others. These will lose moisture faster than ones that are different. Eggs that have been stored longer than others will have already lost some moisture. There is no one perfect humidity that covers all eggs in the incubator. A group average is a better way to go that to try to tailor it to individual eggs. How do you handle it if you get different results for different eggs?

I don’t think there is any significant moisture loss in an egg if it is developing or not early in incubation. Once the embryo develops enough to generate its own heat the rate may go up a bit, but I would not be concerned about that. By that time it’s pretty much too late for you to be able to make a difference anyway.

You can store eggs for a week and not have any significant loss in hatchability, two weeks if you closely watch storage conditions like temperature and humidity and turn them. An egg that has been stored a while will have a different starting point than an egg that is freshly laid. An egg that has a thick shell and a thick white may be better off stored a few days while others can go straight into the incubator. You don’t know which these are so you can only do the best you can. It’s normally good enough.

The acceptable band of moisture loss is fairly wide. Otherwise a hen could not lay a clutch over a two week period or more and expect most to hatch. How accurate can you be by drawing a line where the air cell is? Just the thickness of your marker will make a difference. How accurate is your scale to start with? Look at this moisture loss as a goal to shoot for. It is a good tool to use and can help you get a better overall hatch, but you can still get individual eggs that may lose too much or too little moisture. That’s just the diversity of life.

 

[Tyaloria]

LOL now how many times did I direct you to the[COLOR=005CB1] hatching 101 article[/COLOR] for understanding that humidity is not a set number its been there all along, just sayin

and I will add there are a number more important factors for a good clean hatch in the article so KEEP READING and RESEARCHING there is ALWAYS something more to learn to improve hatchability!

[COLOR=FF0000]HUMIDITY[/COLOR]
[SIZE=18pt]The Air Bubble in the Egg[/SIZE]
The average chicken egg has thousands of pores running through the shell allowing the embryo to exchange oxygen, carbon dioxide. and water. Soon after an egg is laid, a small air bubble or “air cell” forms in the large end of the egg from this water loss. Humidity levels in the incubator determine moisture evaporation during the 21 days of incubation and hatching. The air cell is crucial for the chick to break out of the egg shell at the end of the incubation period. The chick can drown if the air cell is too small or the chick may be retarded in growth if the air cell is too large. This is why maintaining the proper humidity is crucial. [COLOR=FF0000]Slightly lower humidity levels are more likely to be less disastrous than slightly higher humidity levels. There are quite a few opinions on Humidity, but it is no set number.[/COLOR]

Humidity is [COLOR=FF0000]NOT A SET NUMBER, you need it YES![/COLOR]
However, you use it as a tool to "adjust" egg weight loss during incubation. [COLOR=FF0000]We candle on days 7,10,14,18 To WATCH WEIGHT LOSS IN EVERY EGG! An EGG MUST lose approximately 13-14% of its weight during the incubation process. THIS IS YOUR GOAL!! You can monitor this by marking Air cells and also by weighing. [SIZE=14pt]Please refer to CANDLING section of this Article for more Air Cell info.[/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=005CB1] [/COLOR]​

Size of air cell on day 7, 14, and 18 of incubation

​

WHY to MEASURE WEIGHT LOSS IN EGGS, ​

MEASURING PROCEDURES (HOW TO), HOW TO CALCULATE, and HOW to interpret RESULTS
[COLOR=005CB1]http://www.aviagen.com/assets/Tech_Center/BB_Resources_Tools/AA_How_Tos/AAHowto1WaterLossEN13.pdf[/COLOR]

I choose the easier method, keeping a close eye on air cell growth during incubation. You begin by ONLY adding a small amount of water and keep Humidity between 20%-30% and adjusting as you weigh or candle depending on moisture loss. IN SOME AREAS OF THE COUNTRY YOU MAY NOT NEED TO ADD ANY WATER! USE IT AS A TOOL FOR THE CORRECT WEIGHT LOSS IN THE EGG! So if your air cells look too large at each candle period you must add some humidity, too small air cell lower it, and if your weighing you adjust as needed. UNTIL DAY 18 LOCKDOWN,
then stop turning and raise humidity to 65-70%

UNDERSTANDING HUMIDITY

Views of Day 18 Candle.....
[COLOR=005CB1] [/COLOR]​

Really really helpful, thank you!

 

[Daedalus62]

Tim,

Thanks for those links.

... I'll be reading those.


Ridgerunner,

Thanks for your input.

Understood your points... If I may summarise (concerning my worries), please correct me if I'm wrong:

Day 7 will be too early to access if humidity is low or high (within reasonable numbers, of course), and try any fine-tuning.

Adjusting humidity when only developing eggs/embryos are left in the incubator, will be more accurate... Even then, better to average a group/tray of eggs and take these numbers (weight loss percentages) as round figures.

Same on the humidity percentage adjustment in the incubator... I don't think plus or less 5% will make that much difference.

Cheers

Carlos

 

[HickoryHollow]

"Day 7 will be too early to access if humidity is low or high (within reasonable numbers, of course), and try any fine-tuning."

From everything I read, actually day 7 is too late to start. The articles I read said weigh every 3 to 4 days and adjust accordingly. I think if you were way too high, or way too low and waited until day 7, you might not have enough time to correct the issue. I spot checked them out of curiosity yesterday (just day 2) but plan on weighing every one of them tonight now that it is day 3. I think I might be a little low on humidity and if I am need to start correcting it right now.
Tim

 

[Ridgerunner]

Day 7 will be too early to access if humidity is low or high (within reasonable numbers, of course), and try any fine-tuning.

Yes, Day 7 is late. Start earlier.

Adjusting humidity when only developing eggs/embryos are left in the incubator, will be more accurate... Even then, better to average a group/tray of eggs and take these numbers (weight loss percentages) as round figures.

Don’t wait until they develop enough you can remove the quitters. That’s too late. It’s only at the end that developing/not developing might make a difference and even then, it is pretty minor. Early on, it will make no difference. Don’t obsess on this. It is not important.

Same on the humidity percentage adjustment in the incubator... I don't think plus or less 5% will make that much difference.

The goal is to get as close to the right moisture loss as you reasonably can by lockdown. You are looking at average loss over the 18 days, not instantaneous loss. In one day, 5% difference in the humidity inside won’t make a lot of difference to moisture loss. Over the entire 18 day incubation period, it will make a difference. Just keep tweaking it as you go along to get as close as you reasonable can.

This tweaking is not always easy, though some incubators are easier than others. With my old model 1588, I use reservoirs in the plastic tray to add water. Even using the same tray, I get wildly varying results. Sometimes with no water in any tray I get a humidity in the mid-teens. Sometimes I get a reading in the mid-30’s. With one specific tray filled I may get a reading of 30% or 50%. Sometimes I have no water in there, sometimes I fill two trays during incubation. Mine is a forced air. The differences in temperature and moisture content of the air going into the incubator makes a difference to the humidity inside. Plus when colder drier air is going in, it will draw more moisture getting to the right percent humidity because warm air can hold more moisture. In one day that won’t make a significant difference but over an 18 day incubation, it can add up. In colder weather with drier air, my average humidity in the incubator may need to be a tad higher.

I’m going through all this to point out that you are unlikely to consistently be really accurate with this, either from how hard it is to rapidly adjust your incubator or just inaccuracies in your weighing. You don’t have to hit it dead accurate, but if you use this as a tool to do the best you reasonably can, you are probably going to do really well, at least as far as humidity.

I don’t weigh mine or keep track of the air cell. I’ve incubated enough that I can pretty well tell what I need to do with the humidity here without those tools. But when you are starting out, it is a great tool to use to better learn your incubator. Some people like it so much they continuously use it. It can be kind of fun to see what is going on.

 

[Roxannemc]

Great post!
And, no, you can never have "Too Many" thermometers/hygrometers.

HAHAHA looks like my bator..!! readings everyplace!

 

[Roxannemc]

Question..candling my eggsI..I think i should have bigger hatches than i do on my own eggs.Been hatching a few years and still dont get 90% maybe like 60% .But to add to the dilema. i get better hatches on my mixed eggs than on my pure.
Those mixed babies can hardly kill them off no matter what i do!!

..I have brown or blue eggs also and am older so dont see inside as well Some thinner i can see an air cell but others all dark at day10 hummm... am i not seeing in?Think not.
Some may be thicker tan coloring or shell in areas that i cant see where the air cell is i figure .What am I looking at a chick or ??
Some may be right on for day 10 which is when i candle every hatch .
Others like last hatch look like the air cell was really small..... a couple others on target... So then not sure how to adjust
Do i have an extra large chick squashing the air cell ?
Last hatch reading for humidity was between 10-20 ..i never go that low but one had a tiny air cell anyway????

I do not do % as frankly i HATE any kind of math.grunge work to me since a kid .... (Hey! im left handed what do you expect?) but ..guess i need to anyway .SIGH.

Besides at set what days are the best to weigh and how often?