Australorps breed Thread

[lildinkem]

Lildinkem,

these brown cross breed roos of yours look great. Years ago when I bred Modena pigeons, we had planned breedings of red to black to enrich the black. When we took black to black too many times, the black primary feathers in the wings would start to get "washed out" with white. Red to red was not good either, nor was yellow to yellow. We often took yellow to red and vica versa, some of those breedings created sex linked offspring. I think you are on to something here especially with body type and strengthening the beetle green sheen. If you can keep a tighter feather within your offspring with the body type you are showing here, I think that would make a great looking bird.

Dan the way I learn is trial and error. IF I see something that works I keep on doing it. I was very pleased with my F-2's from using the original male I kept from the Buff to Black Aussie mix. He in fact was a Silver with Dun leakage. As a by product I have the Dun gene. Another trait hidden in that "Hatchery" mix was BANTAM. lolol Last year out of my #2 Black Orp pen that had the Black Orp hen, I hatched out a Dun bantam. The previous year I hatched out from her sister when taken to my Cuckoo Orp I hatched out a pair Rosecomb Cuckoo bantams. I could not give them away. I am not into breeding these totally non standard breeds. IF you go onto the UK Orp thread you will see a whole slew of non standard Orp varieties that people are buying to sell and enjoy. For now I am just into making standard breed varieties. A few of our APA breeders like the choice of using the new line of UK Orps to better the type of our BBS varieties. They want to make em more competative with our APA Buff Orps. I figure I already have the Buff type built into some of my Blacks, why not use em. As you said, and I agree, I like the type of these 2 Brown/Reds.

Geoff, from my test breeding I have not had any purple sheen Blacks. Don't mean I will not in the future. I have had no lack of green in my existing line of pure Blacks. I just noticed how much more green and more vivid green sheen I have with this line that has the Buff bred into them.
Here is a pic of one of Harold's sons. He had about a half dozen red feathers on each wing about 4 months ago. For some reason he has lost them. I had not removed them. MAYBE he or some of the girls in with him have. He still has the one red hackle feather left.



He is the pen with my original daughter from the Silver Dun cock. That original cock was 11 lbs at 11 months old. And here in the US APA shows size matters.

 

[aveca]

Hi Aveca,
what a big boy! He looks a very contented character. Glad I'm not one of his girls though. A heavy load tocarry! See he's wearing some of the ultra fashionable fluffy pantaloons. Unsurprisingly, I think Ross's on the money here. They've gotta come from the Orp. Still reckon ours come courtesy of old Joe Partington's Orp, but the bird I have, supposedly from an old Queensland Utility strain, also has fluffy thighs, so I could easily be wrong here. Whatever, if I were you, I'd follow Ross's advice and add Langshan to the mix. It might need to be more the Aussie form of Langie, rather than the 'improved' version shown in Bill's old text which I guess is more a Modern or German type.
Cheers Geoff

LOL..Sorry , that was his fatty pic..I just couldnt beleive he stuffed himself like that....He must be finding lot of goods out there..Didnt have him in with the girls, he probably would have hurt them at that point LOL! Hes thinner this year out patroling with the girls and stands watch..the thing I really like about him is the health and vigor...amazing robust nature with no issues..I did find an odd colored feather on him last year ..something they must have done a long time ago...

I think the pantaloons were used long time ago when people didnt have electricity in north east a decent broody was worth her weight in gold..without those pantaloons they couldnt keep those spring eggs and chicks warm...there is no way they would ever survive..back then they could shoot for june july but by then the humidity was often 80%..today we use dehumidifyers..back then they hoped those chicks were already hatched...so Im sure that is why you see a little poof today like a vestage....

a few barns had hatcherys way back turn of century would hire 2 boys to work fires and keep eggs a hatchable temp and the poultry keeper would take the day shift while the boys slept..not many people could afford that luxury so they turned to the broody...there are some fantastic old lithographs in those old poultry books of the northeast poultry barn..looks like no one got any sleep tweaking those fires round the clock..plus they had to hire people to keep the supplies for the fires ..i dont know how they balanced all of that..but they did..the incubators had wooden hand turners..in this climate you quickly learn what works what doesnt...the climate dictated a lot for survival..so if you think of it that way..it wasnt asthetics it was pure survival in rather harsh climate..the majority of the population during that time was along east coast...the australorp was one of the breeds that did very well here very adaptable





one of last years chicks

 

[aveca]

Hoping everything is OK with Ross..hope hes just busy getting ready for show ..

 

[RossAussie]

G’day,

Some nice pictures there from everyone. It’s so wonderful too se this magnificent fowl as it develops world wide.

I've read most of these posts on my original subject concerning adding Langshan blood into the fowls you have. My recommendations were purely from an exhibitor's point of view and that would be to make a better fowl for the show bench. I have a copy of the British Standard, but I don't have the American Standard. Is it listed anywhere? I have a very old copy of the American Standard of Perfection and I would like to compare the latest versions.

I wouldn’t be adding Orpington blood because of the reasons I stated previously. Geoff, I don't; think you’ll find Joseph Partington's real Orpington strain anywhere, the same as you won't find Bonaventure’s real Australorp strains anywhere as over the decades they have morphed into what we see today.

With respect to the Langshan experiment, I did this twenty years ago to improve the bantams and it worked quite well. The only minor issue is that you will still get a few stubs of feather, ever so rarely and easily discarded, on the legs. In the first few years it is prevalent, but the leg genes of the Australorp eventually dilutes the Langshan leg feathering.

I know one well known exhibitor, here in Queensland, who made his blues and whites using a similar combination.

I also breed Australian Langshans, and if you wanted I can show you a few pictures of them. I realise this is an Australorp thread, but if the general consensus is to add a few Langshan pictures, I can.

Regards,

Ross

 

[groche]

G’day,

Some nice pictures there from everyone. It’s so wonderful too se this magnificent fowl as it develops world wide.

I've read most of these posts on my original subject concerning adding Langshan blood into the fowls you have. My recommendations were purely from an exhibitor's point of view and that would be to make a better fowl for the show bench. I have a copy of the British Standard, but I don't have the American Standard. Is it listed anywhere? I have a very old copy of the American Standard of Perfection and I would like to compare the latest versions.

I wouldn’t be adding Orpington blood because of the reasons I stated previously. Geoff, I don't; think you’ll find Joseph Partington's real Orpington strain anywhere, the same as you won't find Bonaventure’s real Australorp strains anywhere as over the decades they have morphed into what we see today.

With respect to the Langshan experiment, I did this twenty years ago to improve the bantams and it worked quite well. The only minor issue is that you will still get a few stubs of feather, ever so rarely and easily discarded, on the legs. In the first few years it is prevalent, but the leg genes of the Australorp eventually dilutes the Langshan leg feathering.

I know one well known exhibitor, here in Queensland, who made his blues and whites using a similar combination.

I also breed Australian Langshans, and if you wanted I can show you a few pictures of them. I realise this is an Australorp thread, but if the general consensus is to add a few Langshan pictures, I can.

Regards,

Ross

Hi Ross,
I'd like to see some Langie pics as I used to breed them years ago and currently breed a few bantams. I reckon, given their significance in the creation of the BA, it's handy to have some understanding of the Orp. and the Langie. A quick question that doesn't belong here. Are you aware of anyone breeding Lavender bantams? Like Aveca, I've not come across a definition of "gypsy face". Most of the utility BA's I've kept over the years have had more streamlined, aquiline heads c/f exhibition types with their rounder skull. They are usually hairy faced with sunken and wrinkled features. The southern strains that I've kept generally have mulberry rather than red faces. The supposedly 'pure' Queensland utility I have has a blackish face that I've not encountered down south. I dunno where "gypsy face" comes in but I doubt it flatters the gypsies! I agree that the Partington and Cook strains are gone. My understanding is that some Partington blood was added during the creation of the exhibition BA and that some of our 'problems' stem from this addition. Only from some historical stuff I've read. Not saying it's right. Be interested in your comments re the pullet pics I posted. I know she's not gunna win any prizes, but I'd be intersted in what you think I need to work on from a breeding perspective.
Cheers Geoff

 

[RossAussie]

Hi Ross,
I'd like to see some Langie pics as I used to breed them years ago and currently breed a few bantams. I reckon, given their significance in the creation of the BA, it's handy to have some understanding of the Orp. and the Langie. A quick question that doesn't belong here. Are you aware of anyone breeding Lavender bantams? Like Aveca, I've not come across a definition of "gypsy face". Most of the utility BA's I've kept over the years have had more streamlined, aquiline heads c/f exhibition types with their rounder skull. They are usually hairy faced with sunken and wrinkled features. The southern strains that I've kept generally have mulberry rather than red faces. The supposedly 'pure' Queensland utility I have has a blackish face that I've not encountered down south. I dunno where "gypsy face" comes in but I doubt it flatters the gypsies! I agree that the Partington and Cook strains are gone. My understanding is that some Partington blood was added during the creation of the exhibition BA and that some of our 'problems' stem from this addition. Only from some historical stuff I've read. Not saying it's right. Be interested in your comments re the pullet pics I posted. I know she's not gunna win any prizes, but I'd be intersted in what you think I need to work on from a breeding perspective.
Cheers Geoff

G'day Geoff,

The "gyspy face" terminology really describes the darkish aspects of the comb, face and wattle colour of breeds. They vary in the different breeds but in the Australorp you can see it clearly in most of the old commercial strains such as those from Barters and in those fowls in the USA. It's a dark or dirty stain and/or a black flush particularly in the face or around the eyes. The Giles, Harry & Athol, got over that issue by adding Langshan blood in the 1920s and subsequently they had a laying/commercial strain and an exhibition strain. The basis of that strain today that we see winning in the show pens is from that basic exhibition strain.

Your pullets look ok, but as you would appreciate it's very difficult to assess any fowl, professionally, without handling it. I'm not sure what lines Val Bragg used so its hard to comment. If you are serious about good show fowls, my offer of a trio at the "right price" still stands if you were to take the trip to Dubbo and go home via the Gold Coast. If you were keen to get back into showing, why not purcahse a trio off either George Norman or Brian Newell?

Some of my Langshan pullets and cockerels for this season, albiet only a very small team and late bred, are quite satisfying this year. I'll snap a few pictures this afternoon and post them.

Regards,

Ross

 

[DeesHens]

Hi folks,
as promised, a few pics of one of the girls I'm gunna breed from. Lousy pics as I'm no photographer and the bloody chook's camera shy! Seriously, she'll eat out of my hand but you might as well point a gun at her as a camera. Couldn't get her to pose side-on, only got foreshortened views so she looks shorter in the back than she really is. Some might remember that I had 2 breeding aims last year. The first was to get tighter thigh feathering. Pretty naieve considering I wasn't using Ray Conner's necessary "extremely tight feathered" boy. Can't say I've come across one in my travels. The second aim was to get more back curve. I think I've had a bit more success here. As the Newell bird in my avatar is my pin-up BA, I wanted some of that blood. Wrong time of year as Brian and others with his blood had finished culling. Finally got hold of Derrick who had been rejected in favor of a bigger bird. He certainly has back curve, if a bit short for my taste. A lot of the girls I was seeing in shows and breeders' yards seemed a bit flat in the back, once again, only to my taste. The Bragg girls I got to put with Derrick were this way, so I hoped, once again a bit naievely given conformation is more female influenced, that they might 'even up'. I'm not unhappy with this girl. I have about 6 more, younger girls that are developing ok, so fingers crossed I'll have a few breeders for the future. Got the cockerel count down to 14 with only a few real contenders. My boys are really slow to fully develop neck hackles so they look a bit unco.at the moment. Please feel free to comment honestly on this girl. I'm not fragile and only breed for personal pleasure and challenge.
Cheers Geoff from Aus

Hello Geoff. You know I am not speaking with any authority. I just know what I like and I am a huge fan of BA's. Love this thread and all the pics and info shared. I want to tell you from my perspective your birds are gorgeous. The tight feathering is so pretty like a beautiful mosaic, nice looking curves & tail, good size, clean face and those beautiful round black pool eyes.

You should be very proud of the result of all your hard work. I am especially drooling over the last pic. Outstanding! ~Dee~

 

[RossAussie]

G'day again,

I've had a much closer look at those pullets, Geoff, and I would be inclined to see either George or Brian about a cockerel to go over them. I feel one of those pullets is a very good type.

In the meantime I've added pictures of three different Australian Langshan cockerels. All three at one stage of their lives have won Bird of Show. I apologise to those who think I should not post so many pictures, especially of Langshans.

This guy below is the father of those in the next two pictures.This was taken when he won Bird of Show S/F at Bangalow NSW at a very big show. Ray Connor put this fowl's father up as his Best Softfeather at Nambour a few years ago.



This is one of his son's at the same show, 12 months later, who did the same as his father and won Bird of Show. I don't like the picture as it shows flash back and a shadow.



This next shot is one of the top fowls sons and is the main fowl I have used for some of my Langshans for 2013s show season. He picked up 3 majors for us in 2011. I have never won a Bird of Show with any of my Langshan Pullets, but I've gone close.
I have no doubt he is one of the best Langshan males we have ever hatched.

This year the females are outstanding in my humble opinion, so I'll keep my fingers crossed. It's all up to the judge on the day. My first show for 2013 will be 27th April.



Kind regards,

Ross

 

[groche]

Hi Ross,
thanks for your positive comment. Of course, I wasn't expecting you to judge the bird on pics. Just wondered if you could pick up something I'm missing from the pics. Just to emphasise the problem with pics, all those shots are of the same girl. She certainly looks better in some pics. I really appreciate your kind offer of a trio. I'm sure that folk on here would salivate at the thought. I guess I just want to create my 'own' line. I've given myself 10 years to get birds I'm happy with. I've said why I wanted a Newell cockerel and the Bragg girls seemed to 'match' the cockerel with their flattish backs. Val Bragg had had success in Victorian shows so I figured the blood would be ok. But, the most important thing for me is that I got to match birds that I could actually see and try to balance. I guess you would have done something similar years ago in blending lines and still do in selecting which bird to put with which. If I wanted to get into showing seriously I'd purchase a good trio and work from there. I read of an old breeder who boasted, "Give me your 3rd best birds and I'll beat you in 2 years." Apparently he could 'walk the walk'. But I'm not him! I'm trying to breed to the SOP but I really take to the challenge of doing it with my 'own' blend. I will contact Brian Newell again as I'd really like to see his birds in the flesh and maybe pick some birds that I think match. I've got my pullet cull down to about half a dozen, so I'll post pics of my final breeder selections soon. Wish I could say the same re the cockerels! Really should see Brian as you suggest.
Love the Langie pics! The cockerels have wonderful sheen and terrific conformation. The bantam boy I'm using was 'given' to me by a prominent Victorian breeder ( the nastiest person I've ever encountered in chookworld!) and is supposedly quality Queensland blood. He's a nice boy that I've put with some Sonia Ford girls. Never come across Lavender Langies?
Regards Geoff

 

[Cockle-Dood]

Hi ross,

Was looking at your langshan pics and they are beautiful birds! I thought lanshans were to have a very pronounced "U" shape to their back lines? Im not trying to pick but your 3rd pic doesnt seem to have as much of that, is that an ausie langshan vs croad? Maybe it was just how the pic was taken, thanks!