Avian sarcoma leukosis/diseases of commercial stock in backyard flocks

[ChooksChick]

I think in my own flocks, doing the things I do now to prevent introduction of disease will continue to be my first line of defense. I use oregano/oregano oil, turmeric, cinnamon, cayenne, garlic, etc. as antimicrobials/antivirals to improve their own defenses. I believe that providing essential micronutrients from a diverse array of seeds and feed contents gives them a better shot at health. My birds don't eat any commercial feed except rare occasions involving my own poor planning...sometimes I run out before I can get to the feed mill.

I also provide an organic nutrient pack in their feed and neither their vitamins/minerals boost nor their calcium is derived of or derived using petroleum products. I do not bind my feed with oils, as they are extracted from seeds using solvents like hexane. I bind with honey and naturally derived molasses, fig paste, plus some second-press olive oil. Obviously, using the feed within a couple of weeks is necessary, as the preservation of such feed would lose some of the essential nutrients.

No, it's not cheap. Yes, I am loco. I also have incredibly healthy birds, even down to the processing at 14-20 weeks. I will continue to do this as long as I can, because they also eat significantly less feed and thus it nearly evens out. If they are what they eat, and we are...ya know.

 

[easttxchick]

I, for one, don't feel that Resolution is trying to be an alarmist.
Anything that makes me read, research, learn better husbandry practices, etc., is not alarmist, but educational. Learning about any potential threat to my flock is beneficial to me and to them.
I don't raise meat birds, but it appears that this is a naturally occurring retrovirus among all chickens so it can potentially affect any breed.
Thank you for raising this issue, Resolution.

 

[RHRanch]

Quote:
I agree, knowledge is power. There is nothing to be gained by being defensive. How can you make educated choices about things without educating yourself?

 

[Mikey D]

I am a noob that fits this profile exactly.

I got 10 chickens 10 weeks ago and just processed the two Cornish crosses. I have 2 red broilers that will process in a few weeks as well. In addition I am enamored with the Appenzeller Spitz breed and have plans on purchasing (from Ideal or Meyer) a half dozen chicks next hatching season.

So should I be worried? Have I passed LLV from my Cornish to my layers already? (I mean if in fact there was a horizontal vector present)

Should I stay away from the App Spitz breed?

 

[jh7192]

I'll address the concerns of RESOLUTION and the question of scourges of commercial poultry coming to the backyard flock. No one else seems to have interest in it. It's interesting that RESOLUTION mentions about scourges of the commercial industry being visited on the backyard flock. Commercial poultry people are worried sick about backyard birds and what they may have / distribute. Think Avian Influenza. First, the comments concerning Lymphoid Leukosis (LL) are partially correct. LL is one of several diseases caused by a group of viruses collectively known as Leukosis viruses. Since this is not a forum for discussing viruses, suffice it to say that Payne and Fadly have grouped the LL viruses into six subgroups. Each subgroup has several viruses. These viruses cause several clinical diseases, LL, Erythrobalstosis, myeloblastosis, avian sarcoma, osteopetrosis. These viruses are all retroviruses. Does retrovirus sound familiar? Human Immunodeficiency (HIV)and feline immunodeficiency (FIV) viruses are both retroviruses. Since they are retroviruses, they are RNA viruses.
Very briefly, the avian lymphoma viruses have largely been eliminated from grand-parent breeding stock by the primary breeders. This is done by selective breeding over several generations. In the early part of the decade, ALV J slipped through the cracks and somehow managed to make it to the broiler breeder level. It caused havoc for a short while, until the breeders eliminated it. Because LL has, in general, been eliminated from breding birds there is no vaccine available. Even if a vaccine were available, how effective would it be? Look at the problems associated with creating a vaccine against HIV. RESOLUTION indicates in one posting above that antibiotics are ineffective against LL. This is correct. LL is caused by a virus. Antibiotics are ineffective against viruses-period! Resolution mentioned the virus is passed from hen to chick via the egg, a process known as vertical transmission. If so, the chick is immunologically defective and frequently manifests one of the diseases associated with LL. LL is more commonly passed from an infected bird to a non-infected bird. In this instance the non-infected bird that acquires LL virus generally remains healthy. It could become sick as a result of another disease. Due to the fact LL causes immunosuppression of the B-cell system, birds with LL may succumb to Infectious Bursal Disease prior to developing a LL associated disease.
If anyone wishes further information on LL or the other lymphoid viruses, contact me or start reading.

 

[Resolution]

Thank you JH for explaining it so well. Ive reread your post four times now.
I think I'm finally understanding leukosis a bit.
What of the anti- biotic resistant bugs being discussed in the articles?
I know they're not entirely related but found myself wondering what happens when birds become infected with some
Common infectious bacteria pneumonia that are carrying LL? They'll not be expecting LL and treat the malady with a
Antibiotic (typing on iPhone) and I'm assuming once one symptom is treated for these LL Carriers continue to fall apart?
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/203100.htm
Just wondering how common this may be and what can be done feasibly about it.

 

[ChooksChick]

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One big myth that we have to recall here is that it is illegal to use antibiotics in any poultry intended to be a part of the human food chain. Producers are prohibited by the feds to use antibiotics on their product stock. If they suspect pneumonia, they cull. If they suspect anything bacterial that could threaten the stock, they cull. This would eliminate the situation you suggest.

They practice an 'All in, all out' method at the commercial level to ascertain that there isn't anything coming in with the birds that could contaminate. There are massive biosecurity measures taken, such as special solutions incoming vehicles must drive through, and foot pads that all incoming staff walk through.

You get fancy booties at my farm, and you won't be walking in my pens or runs, nor handling my stock.

Solutions in the water, such as ACV or Oxine keep the water from being a source of transmission. It's a constant threat and must be treated as such.

 

[Resolution]

Of course -we learned that it's illegal to feed antibiotics to animals in the food chain- and that would be too expensive anyway- but what do you make of this:

http://www.allaboutfeed.net/news/ca...d-to-stop-use-of-bovine-antibiotic-12477.html

-that leads me to the issue of secondary infections of birds that have contracted LL horizontaly:

What happens when the backyard hobbyist has birds come down with something and they assume an antibiotic will work for them? They get on line and everyone tells them to start with tylan or baytril or what have you.


This in turn leads to the issue of retroviruses- as in where did LL originate and what work with retrovirus have been undertaken on chickens? I recall reading that immunological research has been conducted on lab chickens as models for human maladies .


Medicine grows by leaps and bounds yearly. Surely the we are all concerned with new strains of antibiotic resistant respiratory infections - what are we doing proactively as a community and what can we do to help small family farmers?

Are their slow growing breeds catching LL horizontally from lay hens? The USDA told me that there were vaccinations in use - reading up further here I realise the USDA official I was speaking with was as unfamiliar with the malady of LL as myself. Reading up on the bursal disease it appears that this is where the topic of vaccinations come into place.

Chime in peeps - I'm learning to discuss the perimeters of topics. It discourages hyper focus on the post(er) while encouraging more careful attention to the thread and again- let's figure out ( cooperatively) what the issues are and figure out what the feasible solutions are.

 

[Resolution]

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If the virus has been bred out of breeds/strains before it seems logical to stick with that plan-no? There's no reason to suspect that the cronish cross that you received carried LLV at all. Earlier in the thread I was making huge -only slightly informed brush strokes- I'm learning here- please read what these more knowledgeable writers are offering. I am learning right along with you. Wasn't even aware of this issue until late this summer/early fall.

 

[Tracydr]

Quote:
How do you use the essential oils, herbs and spices? How much? I love the idea of using honey and fig paste. Since you're in Kansas, I'm assuming you don't have your own fig tree? Where do you get fig paste? Do you have your own honey? Your mixture sounds amazing. What do you use for calcium? What about your vit/mineral pack?