Avian sarcoma leukosis/diseases of commercial stock in backyard flocks

[ChooksChick]

Quote:
How do you use the essential oils, herbs and spices? How much? I love the idea of using honey and fig paste. Since you're in Kansas, I'm assuming you don't have your own fig tree? Where do you get fig paste? Do you have your own honey? Your mixture sounds amazing. What do you use for calcium? What about your vit/mineral pack?

Hi Tracy-

I mix the spices and oils into the feed itself at the mill, since I bring a bunch of things with me they can't get there (like spices, fruits, Quinoa, Chia, Maca, etc.) I email ahead with a spreadsheet I use that breaks up all of the ingredients based on a total number of pounds I want to produce. The mill measures out all of the ingredients they provide in advance, and they take the larger ingredients and run them through the crimper (whole corn, 3 types of peas, peanuts, etc.) and then run the whole lot through the auger mixer where all of the smaller ingredients are mixed in with the liquids, etc. This is run through for a long enough period that it's all quite glossy and uniform initially, until the molasses absorbs a bit, which is just a few minutes.

I get the fig paste, date nuggets, honey, dried fruits (mostly cranberries and raisins) the grains I add and most of my spices from a wholesale organic mercantile and from Costco when I can. They have an awesome price on Quinoa!! There's a Mexican market I get spices from for a great price most of the time.

I use the oregano oil in the feed by having the mill add .5 oz. during the part where they are 'rolling' the peanuts, corn and peas. This mixes it in nicely, especially after it gets put in the huge auger mixer next. That's generally .5 oz per 450-600#. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I also add rosemary oil, dried herbs on hand, and other stuff.

Basically, if it looks good to me and I have it on hand or can get it, they get it at some point. I feel that opportunistic diets wouldn't be consistent, and that we go against nature when we make food the same all the time for ourselves or our animals.

Most commercial feeds and vitamin supplements for animals use synthetic vitamins and minerals that are petroleum-based or sourced. I am against soy for the birds, and I'm against the use of petroleum, solvent derivatives, and massive by-product use. Their poop stinks soooooooo much worse when they're fed so much pork by-product! Egh!

The first challenge is finding a feed mill that is near you to have the feed mixed and grains sourced. The second is locating a vitamin supplement that can balance out the nutrients. On the East coast and Midwest, it's fairly easy to locate a Fertrell's dealer. That's the brand of organic fish meal, vitamins, and calcium I use. It's what makes this doable so easily. The third is in taking the plunge and going through with it. It's best if you mix it with whatever you're feeding them for a few weeks, as their gizzard won't be ready to go in to whole grains right away.

You will need to have them chop or crimp the big grains so they don't block the crop and kill the bird.

I can't remember other threads I've posted this all on, but there is a bunch of info out there, and I'm happy to answer any questions!

 

[hallerlake]

Quote:
What are the ramifications for a backyard breeder of Spitz like myself?

 

[allen wranch]

chrisf wrote:
There are two types of Lymphoid Leukosis viruses. One is only transmitted
vertically, that is it passes from the mom to the egg. It will not spread to
other chicks unless they are in the same hatch as the affected birds. The other
is the "J" virus. It can spread through the egg as well as horizontally to
other birds through feces, contact, etc. My Spitz do not have the "J" virus.

If a chicken has LLV, it may develop lymphoid tumors and die. There is no cure.
If it is only a carrier, it could live a long life and never develop tumors. A
lot of my Spitz are pushing seven years old and are fine and healthy.

Do your Spitzhaubens have LLV ? Probably, but you won't know unless blood tests
are performed or a necropsy reveals the tumors. I said probably because LLV
almost always shows up in "fancy" breeds with a limited gene pool that have been
bred within that gene pool for several years (per Texas A&M vet).

You can look up Lymphoid (or Avian) Leukosis on-line and it will give you lots
of information. What I have stated above are the basics and come from extensive
conversations with an avian disease expert (vet) who works exclusively with
chickens. He has written several articles for books and magazine

This was copied from a well know Spitzhauben breeder....she and I are collaborating together to bring back LLV free Spitzhaubens in the States. There are no known anti-viral medications, antibiotics are useless, and there is no known cure............................................chrisf

I wrote the information chrisf posted:

I still have and breed Spitzhaubens and don't worry about LLV anymore. The first time I became familiar with it was when an Ameraucana hen died of LLV the first year I had chickens. This was 8 years ago and none of the rest of my layers (not counting Spitz) have it that I am aware of.

It is not necessarily a death sentence. I still have some of my original Spitzhaubens and they are fat and sassy girls. They carry the virus, but are not affected by it. Only 4 or 5 of all of the Spitzhaubens I have raised have died of the disease, and they usually were older before the tumors grew enough to cause death.

Again, there are two types of LLV, and only the "J" virus is horizonitally transmitted. Most infected birds have the more common vertically transmitted virus.

I would not let LLV determine whether you get Spitzhaubens or not. As mentioned earlier, there are other chicken breeds that have it. Just be careful when you hatch Spitz eggs and not hatch other breed eggs with them.​

 

[Resolution]

I wish that jh7192 would come back and educate you on Spitzhauben- > If not mistaken, the solution appears to be to select breed it out - am I correct?

 

[allen wranch]

Resolution wrote:
I wish that jh7192 would come back and educate you on Spitzhauben- > If not mistaken, the solution appears to be to select breed it out - am I correct?

That is correct, BUT you can't breed it out if you don't have any clean birds to work with. There are some different varieties of Spitz being introduced into the US and a few Spritz breeders are going to try outbreeding with them.

BTW - I don't need to be educated on Spitzhaubens...​

 

[Resolution]

Quote:
That is correct, BUT you can't breed it out if you don't have any clean birds to work with. There are some different varieties of Spitz being introduced into the US and a few Spritz breeders are going to try outbreeding with them.

BTW - I don't need to be educated on Spitzhaubens...

I apologize Allen Wranch, in no way did I mean to disparage your experience- or efforts- quite the contrary- I'm just lagging behind on the virus itself- I meant no slight toward you. The Spitzhauben is one of my favorite breeds. I know plenty of people that have them. They sell well for every hatchery that sells them. How can we help? What does it take to import the new stock? How can we jump start this initiative?

 

[allen wranch]

Resolution,
Thank you...

It is very difficult and expensive to import eggs and chickens into the US. It was tightened up during the Avian Influenza scare, and there are still some countries that are not allowed to import into the US at all.

Gold Sptizhaubens were imported a few years ago and are just now being being introduced to the public. However, there are still not many to work with. Chrisf is presently working with golds to help the overall Spitz breed in the US.

There are several threads on BYC about importing and I think think the USDA has instructions on-line. The exporting country also has their own guidelines.

One of the premier importers right now is Greenfire Farms . They have already imported several rare breeds and are dedicated to helping breeds near extinction.

 

[EweSheep]

I agree with Allenwranch, I would not let that virus stop me from having Spitzhaubens! They are beautiful in their own way and I'm proud to own them!

Now if someone would work on the Spitzhauben Bantams, I would be thrilled!

 

[Resolution]

I import. It's always worth the price. If there is something akin to the AKC in place I'd be interested in collaborating in an importation but in the past everything I've imported has ended up squandered and/or fought over. In the meantime what are we doing with the virus- if it's being spread around inadvertently from hatcheries- it's going to have an impact on the small family farmer raising meat for sale. Several different farmers told me of this problem to date- with slow growing alternative to Cornish strains of meat birds. I doubt it's in all of the birds but as only a few rear lay hens I don't see how this could be showing up in stock unless it's been transmitted vertically- and consequently the parent stock of these specific birds must be carriers. Does it matter at the end of the day? I mean- can't we boost the immune systems of the birds from day one on or does this disease have to be problematic? From my understanding, the birds the birds in each of these respective locations- that were butchered and subsequently condemned- they were without exception - healthy - full weight -in perfect feather -in perfect weight- only their internal organs revealed the virus. That's a stupid question if it matters- of course it matters- but someone put this into context please? Feel like I'm treading water wearing boots here. What do I tell farmers who end up with condemned birds? Do we blame the hatchery? Is blame designation ever helpful in the long term? Will we end up frightening people away from rearing these slower growing broilers? I hope not- they're amazing birds- fantastic breeding- Americans are finally developing a palate for finer poultry. People are beginning to know what a farm fresh egg tastes like -and now some are even aware of what a soy free farm fresh egg tastes like- A friend of mine in Colorado raised two hundred Freedom Rangers this year - a number were condemned. That had a big impact on his operations- he only reared fifty birds the year before and I convinced him to go for two hundred because processed at the proper USDA facility they'd sell them all with no problem. When I heard the same issue from so many other people I was convinced we have a problem but the USDA folks and the pathologists were not particularly excited about it- it's been dealt with before- it's a classic text book case- _didn't make me feel any better about it. The first question every one of these people asked has been- do I need to get rid of all my birds? Are the feds going to come and exterminate my entire flock! Can this spread to my hogs or cattle- that sort of thing- so it's been a learning curve to say the least. So glad people with some matter between their ears are contributing to this thread. SO much dialogue on forums is nonsensical and spirals into childish posturing and ideological liquid evacuation contests.

 

[Resolution]

Just found this bit of sad news .