Aviary questions (foundation leveling and hwc)

[eddie_van_quailen]

Sorry for the long post! I want to make sure we do this right the first time...
We're constructing an outdoor aviary for our coturnix, and have finally just finished weatherproofing all the wood with Timber Pro IWS. We have our blueprint and everything, and we're ready to start building. However, we're still undecided on the best ways to approach the foundation. The "quaviary" (as I've been calling it) will be 4' wide, 8' long, and 8' tall, constructed out of 2x4s and 1/2" 19g hardware cloth. The roof will be flat, for ease of construction/hw cloth application, but in the fall we will add angled rafters and a plastic roof to keep the rain out (we're located in Northern CA).

1. How should we go about leveling the ground? I'd like to have the quail on the ground, both for ease of cleaning and to allow them a more natural habitat. The area of the garden where we're constructing the aviary is quite rocky/poor soil, and unfortunately, at some point, someone laid down several layers of weed barrier under the topsoil. My initial plan was to just build the pen straight on the ground, and add a bit of fill dirt to make it cleaner/nicer for the birds, but the ground isn't quite level enough. My fiancé had the idea to build it on deck blocks since that would make it somewhat easier to level (we'd just have to level the blocks). But then we'd have to add a floor to the aviary, as it would be raised, and the birds wouldn't be on the ground anymore. Alternatively, maybe we could bury the blocks enough to still have the floor of the pen at ground level? That would also give us the option to bury the predator skirt straight down at that time, but digging a trench 12-18" deep all around the aviary in the very rocky soil may prove quite difficult (not to mention pulling up all those layers of that old weed barrier, ugh ). Is there an easier option we're overlooking to get the area level and still allow the quail to be on dirt?

2. Is PVC-coated hardware cloth better? As a veterinary technician working at an avian hospital, I did treat a lot of pet birds for zinc poisoning from being kept in antique/uncoated wire cages or playing with galvanized metal items. I suppose I thought quail were a bit different from parrots/parakeets in that they likely wouldn't spend much time chewing at the cage wire, but maybe I'm wrong? Should we spend a bit extra and reach for the PVC-coated hardware cloth? Are there perhaps other benefits? I watched a video on Coturnix Corner's YouTube page and he used PVC-coated hw cloth on the lower half of his aviary, and I wondered if that was the reason.

Anyway, thanks in advance for reading my novel!
ETA: I was able to answer my predator-proofing questions with a bit more research, so I removed those ones

 

[007Sean]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner! I built a split level enclosure for one of my pens because the ground was not level and had a slope to it. I didn't have a blade for my tractor, so I couldn't level the ground before I built, unless i hired someone to come in and level it. I split the difference between the two sections, 4 pens on one side and 4 on the other side. It worked out ok. There's about a 6" difference in height between the two sections.

You could pour a concrete footing all the way around and have a level surface for building on that way!??? That's a lot of expense and time consuming but it would also work.

Doesn't look like much of a slope but there's an 18" difference from the West side to the East side of the enclosures.

 

[eddie_van_quailen]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner! I built a split level enclosure for one of my pens because the ground was not level and had a slope to it. I didn't have a blade for my tractor, so I couldn't level the ground before I built, unless i hired someone to come in and level it. I split the difference between the two sections, 4 pens on one side and 4 on the other side. It worked out ok. There's about a 6" difference in height between the two sections.

You could pour a concrete footing all the way around and have a level surface for building on that way!??? That's a lot of expense and time consuming but it would also work. View attachment 3489761View attachment 3489760View attachment 3489763
Doesn't look like much of a slope but there's an 18" difference from the West side to the East side of the enclosures.

Thank you for the response! We hadn't considered pouring concrete... That's an interesting idea. I'll float it over to the fiancé!

Since our structure is so small (4'x8'), the current plan is to use gravel to make a level surface on which to build. Last weekend we dug a trench 22" wide and 1-3" deep all the way around the perimeter of where the structure will be (~2-3" deep on the high side of the hill and ~1-2" deep on the low side, so the trench itself was mostly level) and we'll fill the trench with gravel and level that also. Then we'll build the structure on the gravel, along with its 18" predator apron, stake the apron down, and cover it with dirt/mulch. That way when it rains the wood will be sitting on gravel, not wet dirt, and hopefully that will slow the rotting. I was also planning to dig small trenches from the corners leading the water further down the slope of the hill for drainage. Also, we live in Northern California so (besides this past year) I don't think heavy rains will be a frequent issue over the years.

Does that plan sound okay, or are we totally barking up the wrong tree?

 

[007Sean]

Thank you for the response! We hadn't considered pouring concrete... That's an interesting idea. I'll float it over to the fiancé!

Since our structure is so small (4'x8'), the current plan is to use gravel to make a level surface on which to build. Last weekend we dug a trench 22" wide and 1-3" deep all the way around the perimeter of where the structure will be (~2-3" deep on the high side of the hill and ~1-2" deep on the low side, so the trench itself was mostly level) and we'll fill the trench with gravel and level that also. Then we'll build the structure on the gravel, along with its 18" predator apron, stake the apron down, and cover it with dirt/mulch. That way when it rains the wood will be sitting on gravel, not wet dirt, and hopefully that will slow the rotting. I was also planning to dig small trenches from the corners leading the water further down the slope of the hill for drainage. Also, we live in Northern California so (besides this past year) I don't think heavy rains will be a frequent issue over the years.

Does that plan sound okay, or are we totally barking up the wrong tree?

That will probably work, ok! The only thing is what type soil is under the gravel? Gravel tends to sink into the soil. If you have a clay soil it isn't as bad as a loam soil, it compacts so the gravel doesn't settle as much....but clay soils don't allow for water to percolate through, you'll have more run off....just some thoughts.

 

[eddie_van_quailen]

That will probably work, ok! The only thing is what type soil is under the gravel? Gravel tends to sink into the soil. If you have a clay soil it isn't as bad as a loam soil, it compacts so the gravel doesn't settle as much....but clay soils don't allow for water to percolate through, you'll have more run off....just some thoughts.

We weren't sure at first, but @Nabiki mentioned that most of Petaluma is on adobe soil and boy were they right! It's pretty hard clay, so I think with a few inches of gravel and some drainage trenches the water will run off just fine. Thank you so much for your input! If we weren't renting, I would definitely just pour a concrete foundation, but we're building this with the intention of it hopefully being disassemble-able () if we ever have to move, and I don't want to jackhammer out a bunch of concrete when we leave

 

[FunClucks]

We weren't sure at first, but @Nabiki mentioned that most of Petaluma is on adobe soil and boy were they right! It's pretty hard clay, so I think with a few inches of gravel and some drainage trenches the water will run off just fine. Thank you so much for your input! If we weren't renting, I would definitely just pour a concrete foundation, but we're building this with the intention of it hopefully being disassemble-able () if we ever have to move, and I don't want to jackhammer out a bunch of concrete when we leave

Be advised - your chickens will dig up your gravel if they can get to it. Mine live in an enclosed open air coop-run year-round. I used gravel to level the ground underneath the 2"x4" frame that I attached the greenhouse frame to, then ran hardware cloth over the top. They have dug the gravel out from beneath the frame in places, and try to dig out under the predator apron. Luckily their beaks/feet can only reach so far. I put down landscaping tiles/bricks so they can't dig at their favorite spots anymore. They just dig elsewhere.

1"-2" diameter or so fill gravel. Never thought the chickens would mess with it much, but they just power right through it. It's great at wearing down their claws. I should add gravel to my other coops so they can wear their claws down more as well.

My coop build - I tried to link to the first build pics, but the completed build is on there as you go along.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...need-a-coop-please-help.1519455/post-25752806

 

[eddie_van_quailen]

Be advised - your chickens will dig up your gravel if they can get to it. Mine live in an enclosed open air coop-run year-round. I used gravel to level the ground underneath the 2"x4" frame that I attached the greenhouse frame to, then ran hardware cloth over the top. They have dug the gravel out from beneath the frame in places, and try to dig out under the predator apron. Luckily their beaks/feet can only reach so far. I put down landscaping tiles/bricks so they can't dig at their favorite spots anymore. They just dig elsewhere.

1"-2" diameter or so fill gravel. Never thought the chickens would mess with it much, but they just power right through it. It's great at wearing down their claws. I should add gravel to my other coops so they can wear their claws down more as well.

My coop build - I tried to link to the first build pics, but the completed build is on there as you go along.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...need-a-coop-please-help.1519455/post-25752806

Good to know, thank you! This aviary will only be housing quail, and the gravel is all about 0.75-1" in diameter, so hopefully their little feet can't do too much damage. But we'll be filling the interior of the aviary with 4-6" of dirt & mulch also, so they'd have to dig quite deep through that to get to the gravel under the frame. I will for sure keep an eye on it though and fill it in if it starts to look like they're getting close! And thanks for the build thread, I love checking out other peoples' setups for inspo

ETA: Oh that is perfect, your apron is done pretty much exactly how we're planning to do ours! Super helpful!

 

[FunClucks]

Good to know, thank you! This aviary will only be housing quail, and the gravel is all about 0.75-1" in diameter, so hopefully their little feet can't do too much damage. But we'll be filling the interior of the aviary with 4-6" of dirt & mulch also, so they'd have to dig quite deep through that to get to the gravel under the frame. I will for sure keep an eye on it though and fill it in if it starts to look like they're getting close! And thanks for the build thread, I love checking out other peoples' setups for inspo

ETA: Oh that is perfect, your apron is done pretty much exactly how we're planning to do ours! Super helpful!

Sound like you're on top of the gravel issue. I tried filling my coop with 4-6" of wood chips, which somehow went down to 0-2" wood chips (need to refill), and bare dirt, and the chickens dig 6" holes if I let them.

I love my apron too. I think I ordered 4 ft hardware cloth and bent part of it up, for a roughly 3 ft apron. I've seen predators digging 3 inches from the outer edge of the hardware cloth, so we use every inch of that 3 feet. I staked it down so much it can't move (probably overdid it, but no predators in one year [since completion of the build] is pretty good).

 

[eddie_van_quailen]

Sound like you're on top of the gravel issue. I tried filling my coop with 4-6" of wood chips, which somehow went down to 0-2" wood chips (need to refill), and bare dirt, and the chickens dig 6" holes if I let them.

I love my apron too. I think I ordered 4 ft hardware cloth and bent part of it up, for a roughly 3 ft apron. I've seen predators digging 3 inches from the outer edge of the hardware cloth, so we use every inch of that 3 feet. I staked it down so much it can't move (probably overdid it, but no predators in one year [since completion of the build] is pretty good).

Oh wow, that's impressive! We're just doing an 18" apron... hopefully it's enough? The ground here is pretty hard, but we do have coyotes, foxes, etc. so I'm not sure if they'll be able to get past it or not...

 

[FunClucks]

Oh wow, that's impressive! We're just doing an 18" apron... hopefully it's enough? The ground here is pretty hard, but we do have coyotes, foxes, etc. so I'm not sure if they'll be able to get past it or not...

It really depends on your predators and your ground, etc. lots of factors.

A lot of folks do 18" and it works for them. If you have a coop camera, you should be able to tell a lot about what's going on once you get your chickens in place.

We have pseudo woodland here, with a small stream across the back of the property, and get foxes, racoons, possum, snakes, rats, groundhogs, maybe mink and weasel. Cats for sure, maybe dogs. Loamy clay soil, lots of tree roots. I was surprised by how far away from the coop I've found dig marks. But most of the time it is within the first two feet.