- Aug 23, 2020
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Sounds awesome, definitely following.
Back At The Chicken Shack
- Thread starter Lauravonsmurf
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
Well I cruised the web looking for RIR Rose Comb and RIW Rose Comb chick possibilities… I may as well be trying to find a Unicorn. Oh and it does not look good for Heritage Quality RIWs either. Will probably have to ask on threads here… beat the bushes. Hopefully can find a few hatching eggs.
Now on to new breed we ordered the Saipan Jungle Fowl, we are hoping for a breeding pair out of the straight run order. These are a big muscular slow growing breed. They can get 2-3 feet long. I mean scale wise they are huge. They are predominantly Wheaton.
Not My Pictures… just want to give folks an idea about these Dino Attack Guard Birds.
I am pretty sure having seen the front of this breed they have massive breast muscles. I am thinking crossing a Saipan over the Naked Neck girls will produce impressive birds. Off course I will breed some pure ones too if I get at least enough of each gender.
I think they are suppose to have Pearl Eyes. Their comb is either pea or a flat walnut, which means rose is possible too. No wattles a dewlap instead, hard tight feathers.This breed is not known for laying lots of eggs.
I tried to order these last year but the Hatchery canceled the order not enough chicks born so I ordered early this year! So everyone knock on wood.
Now on to new breed we ordered the Saipan Jungle Fowl, we are hoping for a breeding pair out of the straight run order. These are a big muscular slow growing breed. They can get 2-3 feet long. I mean scale wise they are huge. They are predominantly Wheaton.
Not My Pictures… just want to give folks an idea about these Dino Attack Guard Birds.
I am pretty sure having seen the front of this breed they have massive breast muscles. I am thinking crossing a Saipan over the Naked Neck girls will produce impressive birds. Off course I will breed some pure ones too if I get at least enough of each gender.
I think they are suppose to have Pearl Eyes. Their comb is either pea or a flat walnut, which means rose is possible too. No wattles a dewlap instead, hard tight feathers.This breed is not known for laying lots of eggs.
I tried to order these last year but the Hatchery canceled the order not enough chicks born so I ordered early this year! So everyone knock on wood.
- Thread starter
- #43
Found some pictures of the RC Rhode Island breeds…
Again not my pictures… trying to get ideas on what these breeds look like.
Sandhill Preserve has RC RIR maybe?
Again not my pictures… trying to get ideas on what these breeds look like.
Sandhill Preserve has RC RIR maybe?
- Thread starter
- #44
Standard of Perfection Buckeye from American Buckeye Club
http://americanbuckeyeclub.blogspot.com/p/buckeye-sop.html
The Buckeye was recognized and accepted as a distinct breed by the American Poultry Association (APA) in 1904, and the Buckeye's first official Standard of Perfection (SOP) listing came about in the 1905 edition of the APA's Standard of Perfection.
The SOP, as it is often called, can be amended from time to time and it is interesting to compare SOP's as they changed through the years. Sometimes the changes raise controversy. In an effort to continue the development of the bird that Nettie Metcalf had in mind, we are presenting the original SOP adopted in 1905 by the APA below for readers to enjoy.
We have also attempted to show how the SOP has changed since its adoption by including some excerpts from the APA's 2010 edition of The American Standard of Perfection (shown in italics below). It is important to note that these excerpts have been edited to comply with APA copyright provisions, so our excerpts do not represent the APA's complete breed description. For a complete description of the Buckeye's current SOP (and the SOP of all other breeds and varieties of domestic poultry) please reference The American Standard of Perfection, which is available from the APA (click here).
BUCKEYE STANDARD OF PERFECTION (1905) originally published by the American Poultry Association
Disqualifications.
Twisted or puckered comb; black beak; permanent white in ear- lobes; white feathers; shanks other than yellow. (See general disqualifications)
Standard Weights.
Cock 9 lbs. Hen 6 lbs. (2010 Standard is 6 1/2)
Cockerel 8 lbs. Pullet 5 lbs. (2010 Standard is 5 1/2)
SHAPE OF MALE.
Head—Of medium size, carried well up.
Beak—Short, stout, regularly curved.
Eyes—Of medium size, full, bright, with bold expression.
Comb—Pea, small, firm, set closely on head.
Wattles and Ear-Lobes—Wattles, of equal length, moderately rounded (2010 Standard also indicates they should be moderately small). Earlobes, of medium size; fine in texture.
Neck—Of medium length, well arched, tapering nicely; hackle, abundant,
flowing well over shoulders.
Back—Broad at shoulders (2010 Standard now indicates the bird should be broad throughout its length and slope slightly downward to base of tail), rather long, rising with slight concave sweep to tail; saddle feathers, abundant.
Breast—Broad, deep, well rounded, carried somewhat elevated above the
horizontal.
Body and Fluff—Body, rather long, broad, deep, full, heavy for size of bird ;
keel-bone, long, straight, extending well forward. Fluff, moderately full.
Wings—Of medium size, well folded; wing-bows and wing-points, well covered by breast and saddle feathers, respectively.
Tail—Of medium length and size, carried moderately upright (2010 Standard defines this as 40 degrees above horizontal); sickles and coverts, of medium length, nicely curved, sufficiently abundant to cover well the stiff feathers.
Legs and Toes—Thighs, of medium length, large, well covered with soft feathers; shanks, of medium length, stout, smooth, set well apart (2010 Standard indicates legs should be straight when viewed from the front). Toes, of medium length, straight, strong, well spread (2010 Standard specifies four toes on each foot). Shanks and toes free from feathers and down.
SHAPE OF FEMALE.
Head—Of medium size, carried well up.
Beak—Short, stout, regularly curved.
Eyes—Of medium size, full, bright.
Comb—Pea, small, set closely on head.
Wattles and Ear-Lobes—Wattles, of equal length, moderately rounded. Earlobes, of medium size; fine in texture.
Neck—Of medium length, well curved, tapering nicely to head, where it is
comparatively small; hackle, moderately full.
Back—Broad, rather long, rising very slightly to tail.
Breast—Broad, deep, well rounded, carried somewhat elevated above the
horizontal.
Body and Fluff—Body, long, broad, deep, full, heavy for size of bird; keel bone, long, straight, extending well forward. Fluff, moderately full.
Wings—Of medium size, well folded.
Tail—Of medium length, fairly well spread, carried moderately upright (2010 Standard identifies this as a 30 degree angle above horizontal).
Legs and Toes—Thighs, of medium length and size, well covered with soft feathers; shanks, of medium length, stout, smooth, set well apart (2010 Standard also indicates legs should be straight when viewed from the front). Toes, of medium length and size, straight, well spread (2010 Standard specifies four toes on each foot). Shanks and toes free from feathers and down.
COLOR OF MALE.
Beak—Yellow, shaded with red horn.
Eyes—Red. (2010 Standard indicates "Reddish Bay")
Face—Bright red.
Comb, Wattles and Ear-Lobes—Bright red.
Shanks and Toes—Yellow, shaded with red horn. (2010 Standard appears to indicate that the red horn coloring is a tendancy rather than a requirement as it states "Yellow (Tend to be shaded with reddish horn)")
Plumage—General surface, dark, rich, velvety red, garnet or dark cardinal in shade, never buff or bricky (2010 Standard changes this wording to "an even shade of rich mahogany bay", which has caused some controversy among Buckeye breeders); head, neck, hackle, back, saddle and wing-bows, richly glossed with a metallic luster; under-color, a lighter shade of red, except on the feathers of the back, where a bar of slate should appear next to surface color, balance of the web to be red; color of quill to conform to web of feather. Other things being equal, the specimen showing the richest, most even surface color shall be given the preference. The unexposed flight feathers and main tail feathers may contain black; sickles and coverts should be shaded red and black (2010 Standard changes this to "bay and black"), thus avoiding a sharp contrast between body and tail. A harmonious blending of red in all sections is desirable.
COLOR OF FEMALE.
Beak—Yellow. (2010 Standard also adds "shaded with reddish horn")
Eyes—Red. (2010 Standard indicates "Reddish Bay")
Face—Bright red.
Comb, Wattles and Ear-Lobes—Bright red.
Shanks and Toes—Yellow, or reddish yellow. (2010 Standard changes this to "Yellow (Tend to be shaded with reddish horn)")
Plumage — General surface, dark, rich, velvety red, garnet or dark cardinal in shade, never buff or bricky (As with the male, the 2010 Standard changes this wording to "an even shade of rich mahogany bay"). Under-color, a lighter shade, except on the feathers of the back, where a bar of slate should appear next to surface color. Other things being equal, the specimen showing the most even, dark red surface color shall be given the preference. The unexposed flight feathers and main tail feathers may contain black. A harmonious blending of red in all sections is desirable.
http://americanbuckeyeclub.blogspot.com/p/buckeye-sop.html
Standard Of Perfection (SOP)
The Buckeye was recognized and accepted as a distinct breed by the American Poultry Association (APA) in 1904, and the Buckeye's first official Standard of Perfection (SOP) listing came about in the 1905 edition of the APA's Standard of Perfection.
The SOP, as it is often called, can be amended from time to time and it is interesting to compare SOP's as they changed through the years. Sometimes the changes raise controversy. In an effort to continue the development of the bird that Nettie Metcalf had in mind, we are presenting the original SOP adopted in 1905 by the APA below for readers to enjoy.
We have also attempted to show how the SOP has changed since its adoption by including some excerpts from the APA's 2010 edition of The American Standard of Perfection (shown in italics below). It is important to note that these excerpts have been edited to comply with APA copyright provisions, so our excerpts do not represent the APA's complete breed description. For a complete description of the Buckeye's current SOP (and the SOP of all other breeds and varieties of domestic poultry) please reference The American Standard of Perfection, which is available from the APA (click here).
 |
| Buckeye photographs in the American Buckeye Club 1916 Catalog |
Disqualifications.
Twisted or puckered comb; black beak; permanent white in ear- lobes; white feathers; shanks other than yellow. (See general disqualifications)
Standard Weights.
Cock 9 lbs. Hen 6 lbs. (2010 Standard is 6 1/2)
Cockerel 8 lbs. Pullet 5 lbs. (2010 Standard is 5 1/2)
SHAPE OF MALE.
Head—Of medium size, carried well up.
Beak—Short, stout, regularly curved.
Eyes—Of medium size, full, bright, with bold expression.
Comb—Pea, small, firm, set closely on head.
 |
| Champion Cockerel owned by Shumaker Farms |
Neck—Of medium length, well arched, tapering nicely; hackle, abundant,
flowing well over shoulders.
Back—Broad at shoulders (2010 Standard now indicates the bird should be broad throughout its length and slope slightly downward to base of tail), rather long, rising with slight concave sweep to tail; saddle feathers, abundant.
Breast—Broad, deep, well rounded, carried somewhat elevated above the
horizontal.
Body and Fluff—Body, rather long, broad, deep, full, heavy for size of bird ;
keel-bone, long, straight, extending well forward. Fluff, moderately full.
Wings—Of medium size, well folded; wing-bows and wing-points, well covered by breast and saddle feathers, respectively.
Tail—Of medium length and size, carried moderately upright (2010 Standard defines this as 40 degrees above horizontal); sickles and coverts, of medium length, nicely curved, sufficiently abundant to cover well the stiff feathers.
Legs and Toes—Thighs, of medium length, large, well covered with soft feathers; shanks, of medium length, stout, smooth, set well apart (2010 Standard indicates legs should be straight when viewed from the front). Toes, of medium length, straight, strong, well spread (2010 Standard specifies four toes on each foot). Shanks and toes free from feathers and down.
SHAPE OF FEMALE.
 |
| Show Quality Hen owned by Shumaker Farms |
Beak—Short, stout, regularly curved.
Eyes—Of medium size, full, bright.
Comb—Pea, small, set closely on head.
Wattles and Ear-Lobes—Wattles, of equal length, moderately rounded. Earlobes, of medium size; fine in texture.
Neck—Of medium length, well curved, tapering nicely to head, where it is
comparatively small; hackle, moderately full.
Back—Broad, rather long, rising very slightly to tail.
Breast—Broad, deep, well rounded, carried somewhat elevated above the
horizontal.
Body and Fluff—Body, long, broad, deep, full, heavy for size of bird; keel bone, long, straight, extending well forward. Fluff, moderately full.
Wings—Of medium size, well folded.
Tail—Of medium length, fairly well spread, carried moderately upright (2010 Standard identifies this as a 30 degree angle above horizontal).
Legs and Toes—Thighs, of medium length and size, well covered with soft feathers; shanks, of medium length, stout, smooth, set well apart (2010 Standard also indicates legs should be straight when viewed from the front). Toes, of medium length and size, straight, well spread (2010 Standard specifies four toes on each foot). Shanks and toes free from feathers and down.
COLOR OF MALE.
Beak—Yellow, shaded with red horn.
Eyes—Red. (2010 Standard indicates "Reddish Bay")
Face—Bright red.
Comb, Wattles and Ear-Lobes—Bright red.
Shanks and Toes—Yellow, shaded with red horn. (2010 Standard appears to indicate that the red horn coloring is a tendancy rather than a requirement as it states "Yellow (Tend to be shaded with reddish horn)")
Plumage—General surface, dark, rich, velvety red, garnet or dark cardinal in shade, never buff or bricky (2010 Standard changes this wording to "an even shade of rich mahogany bay", which has caused some controversy among Buckeye breeders); head, neck, hackle, back, saddle and wing-bows, richly glossed with a metallic luster; under-color, a lighter shade of red, except on the feathers of the back, where a bar of slate should appear next to surface color, balance of the web to be red; color of quill to conform to web of feather. Other things being equal, the specimen showing the richest, most even surface color shall be given the preference. The unexposed flight feathers and main tail feathers may contain black; sickles and coverts should be shaded red and black (2010 Standard changes this to "bay and black"), thus avoiding a sharp contrast between body and tail. A harmonious blending of red in all sections is desirable.
COLOR OF FEMALE.
Beak—Yellow. (2010 Standard also adds "shaded with reddish horn")
Eyes—Red. (2010 Standard indicates "Reddish Bay")
Face—Bright red.
Comb, Wattles and Ear-Lobes—Bright red.
Shanks and Toes—Yellow, or reddish yellow. (2010 Standard changes this to "Yellow (Tend to be shaded with reddish horn)")
Plumage — General surface, dark, rich, velvety red, garnet or dark cardinal in shade, never buff or bricky (As with the male, the 2010 Standard changes this wording to "an even shade of rich mahogany bay"). Under-color, a lighter shade, except on the feathers of the back, where a bar of slate should appear next to surface color. Other things being equal, the specimen showing the most even, dark red surface color shall be given the preference. The unexposed flight feathers and main tail feathers may contain black. A harmonious blending of red in all sections is desirable.
- Thread starter
- #45
Since finding Rose Comb Rhode Islands of any colour is like looking for Bigfoot I thought it might be helpful to take a gander at breed ancestors…
Breeds in genetic background of the Buckeye:
Buff Cochin Roosters (Single Comb)
Barred Plymouth Rock Hens (Single Comb)
F1 Cross of above breeds
Black Breasted Red Game Rooster, most lovely of mixed Cornish heritage. (Probable Pea Comb)
Breeds in genetic background of Rhode Island Red:
Brown Leghorns (Rose Comb)
Cochins (Single)
Brahmas (Pea Comb)
Red Malays (Strawberry a type of “walnut”)
Javas (Single)
Cornish (Pea Comb)
(There was a Pea Comb variety… Buckeyes were exhibited with it but body type was different so it became it’s own breed and RIR breeders did not favor the PC and it no longer exists)
Breeds in genetic background of Rhode Island White:
Cochins (Single Comb)
White Leghorns (Rose Comb)
Wyandottes (Rose Comb)
(RIR was not used to create this breed… it was bred to look like a White RIR)
Saipan:
Believed at this point the theories run along this line, chickens where introduced to the Mariana Islands by Austronesian sailors and Japanese soldiers in WWII brought their fighting chickens with them. These birds were running around in a feral state. BW thought they were a unique species of Jungle Fowl postulated in theories of the origin of modern chicken breeds, he set out to save them, as cross breeding with regular chickens was going to result in extinction. Specimens were brought back to the USA by BW Sailor the main breeder, keeper, studier and promoter of the birds. I did read other pools of birds did make it over too… anyway the breed probably has O Shamo and Malay type breeds in it, but is not really known for sure. I couldn’t find any good genetic analysis to give insight. Crossbreeding with other breeds has occurred in some lines, supposedly. The history of this breed in forum discussions can get heated… not sure why… so he might have been wrong about his theory, big deal, they are cool. We need a major university to do genetic testing on the various hatchery pools and lines in private care in the USA and then compare that to other large game fowl, jungle fowl and feral birds on the Islands. The breed no longer exists on the Islands.
Egyptian Fayoumi
Theories; one it is native to Egypt and was imported to Europe and there became the Campine… two it was native to Europe and at some point in history was imported to Egypt (when imported depends) not sure if anyone has bothered to do DNA research.
Naked Necks
Random Mutation in Romanian Chickens 100s of years ago.
Breeds in genetic background of the Buckeye:
Buff Cochin Roosters (Single Comb)
Barred Plymouth Rock Hens (Single Comb)
F1 Cross of above breeds
Black Breasted Red Game Rooster, most lovely of mixed Cornish heritage. (Probable Pea Comb)
Breeds in genetic background of Rhode Island Red:
Brown Leghorns (Rose Comb)
Cochins (Single)
Brahmas (Pea Comb)
Red Malays (Strawberry a type of “walnut”)
Javas (Single)
Cornish (Pea Comb)
(There was a Pea Comb variety… Buckeyes were exhibited with it but body type was different so it became it’s own breed and RIR breeders did not favor the PC and it no longer exists)
Breeds in genetic background of Rhode Island White:
Cochins (Single Comb)
White Leghorns (Rose Comb)
Wyandottes (Rose Comb)
(RIR was not used to create this breed… it was bred to look like a White RIR)
Saipan:
Believed at this point the theories run along this line, chickens where introduced to the Mariana Islands by Austronesian sailors and Japanese soldiers in WWII brought their fighting chickens with them. These birds were running around in a feral state. BW thought they were a unique species of Jungle Fowl postulated in theories of the origin of modern chicken breeds, he set out to save them, as cross breeding with regular chickens was going to result in extinction. Specimens were brought back to the USA by BW Sailor the main breeder, keeper, studier and promoter of the birds. I did read other pools of birds did make it over too… anyway the breed probably has O Shamo and Malay type breeds in it, but is not really known for sure. I couldn’t find any good genetic analysis to give insight. Crossbreeding with other breeds has occurred in some lines, supposedly. The history of this breed in forum discussions can get heated… not sure why… so he might have been wrong about his theory, big deal, they are cool. We need a major university to do genetic testing on the various hatchery pools and lines in private care in the USA and then compare that to other large game fowl, jungle fowl and feral birds on the Islands. The breed no longer exists on the Islands.
Egyptian Fayoumi
Theories; one it is native to Egypt and was imported to Europe and there became the Campine… two it was native to Europe and at some point in history was imported to Egypt (when imported depends) not sure if anyone has bothered to do DNA research.
Naked Necks
Random Mutation in Romanian Chickens 100s of years ago.
- Thread starter
- #46
As I review genetics and breeding for specific traits… it occurred to me if I set up breeding right I could do sex linked breeding.
Igraine here is a Cuckoo pullet, so a Red or Wheaton Rooster should produce Black Sex Link f1 crosses. Depending what we add to the flock roo wise I could give this a try. The RIW Pullets I ordered can also be used in sex link breeding.
So now I am thinking maybe it would be cool to develop a Red, White and Cuckoo line… so if I want I can sex link breed… just musing on it.
I think I will have to order a few hatching eggs if I want RC RIR and RC RIW. I can get hatchery SC RIR local.
Mail in Gender Testing! It exists… another member here told me about it, the current website (they are moving) Go team science! So I will have to try it out on chicks we hatch this year.
https://iqbirdtesting.com/
Igraine here is a Cuckoo pullet, so a Red or Wheaton Rooster should produce Black Sex Link f1 crosses. Depending what we add to the flock roo wise I could give this a try. The RIW Pullets I ordered can also be used in sex link breeding.
So now I am thinking maybe it would be cool to develop a Red, White and Cuckoo line… so if I want I can sex link breed… just musing on it.
I think I will have to order a few hatching eggs if I want RC RIR and RC RIW. I can get hatchery SC RIR local.
Mail in Gender Testing! It exists… another member here told me about it, the current website (they are moving) Go team science! So I will have to try it out on chicks we hatch this year.
https://iqbirdtesting.com/
- Thread starter
- #47
Production Reds… apparently they can be specific lines of RIR, New Hampshire Red, or RIR New Hampshire Red mixed line. It might be worth my while to find a couple Red Broilers to see how they mature in comparison to the “dual purpose”.
I definitely want to breed an amazing Mahogany Black tailed look to the NNs.
I like weird combs and it would be different to have more than SC if possible (SC is SoP for NNs but I think RC might look cool), unfortunately RC and RPC effect sperm mobility from everything I have read. I think PC does not effect fertility. The “flat” comb of the Saipan is probably RPC… might explain lower fertility rates. I suspect the hatchery Saipan will be PC only. The P gene causes wattles to disappear.
Collected some sample pictures of RC birds off the net (not my chickens).
RC RIR
RC RIW
RC Dominique
RC Wyandotte
RC Rosecomb Bantam
I definitely want to breed an amazing Mahogany Black tailed look to the NNs.
I like weird combs and it would be different to have more than SC if possible (SC is SoP for NNs but I think RC might look cool), unfortunately RC and RPC effect sperm mobility from everything I have read. I think PC does not effect fertility. The “flat” comb of the Saipan is probably RPC… might explain lower fertility rates. I suspect the hatchery Saipan will be PC only. The P gene causes wattles to disappear.
Collected some sample pictures of RC birds off the net (not my chickens).
RC RIR
RC RIW
RC Dominique
RC Wyandotte
RC Rosecomb Bantam
- Thread starter
- #48
Guinevere: If you look closely you can see she has black tail feathers…. So I am thinking she is a Black Tail Buff and may have feather genetics like this eWh Co Mh Di… she could in addition carry Cb (Champagne Blonde).
- Thread starter
- #49
Fertility
If I want to avoid fertility issues than the rose gene is not the way to go (really trying to decide, RC looks so cool… sigh) which also means the Saipan flat comb which is probably a sort of cushion comb and thus RRPP (a type of walnut with other genes that suppresses size and keeps it smooth) means Pea and Single are best… all something to think on in what genetics I want in my utility flock.
I have estimated fertility rates of breeds from one of the hatcheries…
Olive Eggers 55-70%, 10 hens to 1 rooster
Buckeye 60-75%, 9 hens to 1 rooster
Rhode Island White (SC) 65-80%, 10 hens to 1 rooster
Rhode Island Red (SC) 65-80%, 10 hens to 1 rooster
Saipan 40-55%, 6 hens to 1 rooster
Jersey Giant 65-80%, 9 hens to 1 rooster
Naked Neck 50-70%, 10 hens to 1 rooster
Egyptian Fayoumi 40-55%, 12 hens to 1 rooster
Phoenix 40-55%, 9 hens to 1 rooster
French Maran 55-70%, 8 hens to 1 rooster
D’Uccle 40-55%, 6 hens to 1 rooster
Swedish Black ?, ?
Keep in mind the above is based on their lines, but it is interesting to see their % and mating hen to rooster numbers.
The Pea Comb
If I want to avoid fertility issues than the rose gene is not the way to go (really trying to decide, RC looks so cool… sigh) which also means the Saipan flat comb which is probably a sort of cushion comb and thus RRPP (a type of walnut with other genes that suppresses size and keeps it smooth) means Pea and Single are best… all something to think on in what genetics I want in my utility flock.
I have estimated fertility rates of breeds from one of the hatcheries…
Olive Eggers 55-70%, 10 hens to 1 rooster
Buckeye 60-75%, 9 hens to 1 rooster
Rhode Island White (SC) 65-80%, 10 hens to 1 rooster
Rhode Island Red (SC) 65-80%, 10 hens to 1 rooster
Saipan 40-55%, 6 hens to 1 rooster
Jersey Giant 65-80%, 9 hens to 1 rooster
Naked Neck 50-70%, 10 hens to 1 rooster
Egyptian Fayoumi 40-55%, 12 hens to 1 rooster
Phoenix 40-55%, 9 hens to 1 rooster
French Maran 55-70%, 8 hens to 1 rooster
D’Uccle 40-55%, 6 hens to 1 rooster
Swedish Black ?, ?
Keep in mind the above is based on their lines, but it is interesting to see their % and mating hen to rooster numbers.
The Pea Comb
- Thread starter
- #50
Looking up more on the Rhode Island Red… basically it is what we would call today a Landrace. No one in particular set out to create it, it just sort of happened based on what regular people living in a particular part of Rhode Island found they liked in their chickens and over time a set type developed that bred true... and a breed was born as people had set ideas on what the Red Chickens they liked should look like. This is also why it is a pool of breeds or even “proto” breeds that are discussed as possible ancestors, unlike the Rhode Island White which is documented as to exactly which breeds where used. As a practical breed it actually was criticized for its Landrace common breeding, I think the RIR and it’s countless regular keepers who never even probably thought about the show bench when it first started developing into a set type, who just wanted a healthy dual purpose bird have gotten the last laugh… it is a breed that has now been used around the world to create other breeds and is still awesome all on its own.
I found this bit on their history and cool pictures relating to them to help with getting a better idea of what a true dual purpose RIR should look like… but first a note on the the Shakebag chicken cited in the article, it was a strain of fighting game fowl… they where huge compared to the other birds used around the 9-14 lb range cocks versus the super light usually around 3 lb birds preferred at the time by most game fowl keepers. Many think they where Malays but I doubt that myself as I have read old cock breeding keeping books some very archaic (I find the advice on chicken keeping from different time periods super interesting) and the Shakebags go back pretty far and the oldest actually indicated a European country of origin, but the breed was not suited to the sort of contests the English and latter Americans preferred… also descriptions of their flesh and what happens with taste, texture and look of flesh when Malays where bred with them to maintain the breed indicate different genetic pools… the picture of the Shakebag also shows how different they looked compared to a Malay. They are an extinct breed today but probably contributed to both modern game fowl breeds and utility breeds. PS I am not encouraging or promoting cock fighting… it is just the reality of history.
These are old images of Malays, very much like the Saipan in body type but the old art image of the Shakebag in the RIR article shows a difference in body type…
Various Pictures of interest towards understanding the RIR
I found this bit on their history and cool pictures relating to them to help with getting a better idea of what a true dual purpose RIR should look like… but first a note on the the Shakebag chicken cited in the article, it was a strain of fighting game fowl… they where huge compared to the other birds used around the 9-14 lb range cocks versus the super light usually around 3 lb birds preferred at the time by most game fowl keepers. Many think they where Malays but I doubt that myself as I have read old cock breeding keeping books some very archaic (I find the advice on chicken keeping from different time periods super interesting) and the Shakebags go back pretty far and the oldest actually indicated a European country of origin, but the breed was not suited to the sort of contests the English and latter Americans preferred… also descriptions of their flesh and what happens with taste, texture and look of flesh when Malays where bred with them to maintain the breed indicate different genetic pools… the picture of the Shakebag also shows how different they looked compared to a Malay. They are an extinct breed today but probably contributed to both modern game fowl breeds and utility breeds. PS I am not encouraging or promoting cock fighting… it is just the reality of history.
These are old images of Malays, very much like the Saipan in body type but the old art image of the Shakebag in the RIR article shows a difference in body type…
Various Pictures of interest towards understanding the RIR
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