Bad rooster

[Northie]

Beekissed,
Once you've schooled your roosters are they typically safe for anyone to be around or do they only recognize you as the alfa animal in the pen? I don't trust animals too easily when it comes to our small kids. That's partially because I'm being protective and partially because cause I know what kind of trouble the boogers can get into... So how do you manage kids around roosters who aren't marshmallows by nature? I had been ok with eating the mean ones anyway....

 

[Beekissed]

I come from a family of nine kids...you can imagine how many grandkids and greats have sprung from that well. We've never had one flogged by a rooster..or even approached by a rooster. Primarily because the children are taught to act a certain way around livestock and the livestock are started out understanding the relationship between humans and birds. We don't encourage young children~or anyone, for that matter~to hand feed the roosters, no matter how young the rooster may be. Actually, especially the young roosters....here's an article as to why:

http://www.usask.ca/wcvm/herdmed/applied-ethology/Bottle-raised males can be very dangerous.pdf

We never had animal behaviorists to give us this information when we were all growing up..we were simply taught that male livestock are unpredictable, at best, so establishing a certain idea of what is safe behavior around them is always taught on a farm. Kids are not encouraged to go in the pasture where the bull is kept, not to get in the pen with the boar or the sow with new pigs, and certainly not bend down to hand feed to a rooster...that puts your eyeballs where his claws are. These are all common sense issues and I know it's no longer common any longer to have good sense but it doesn't change the need for it.

One simply cannot change the nature of some male animals when hormones kick in unless they neuter said animal..a farmer can have the nicest big pet of a bull for many long years and then get killed by him one fine morning because he has let his guard down. I can't tell you how many times that has happened in my lifetime, to read a story of just that, one guy right up the road, actually....all his history with that bull seemed to indicate the bull was gentle, docile, trustworthy and so he was not eliminated from herd genetics. But temporary instinctive behavior has little to do with genetics and that is what most people are experiencing with roosters. The very first time or two the rooster makes fight at them, they come on the forum asking what to do about a bad rooster and everyone says "kill it". Quote: "He was nice and sweet until he turned about 5 mo. old and then he turned "bad"." He's being a rooster and doing what roosters do when the hormones kick in...this does not mean he will always be trying to attack humans. It merely means he acted on instinct and the humans didn't let him know that his instincts do not apply to the human. That's where teaching comes in...for most old farmers, that means a quick boot to the roo and a lofty flying trip through the air. Training finished.

I don't walk around in fear of my rooster's hormones kicking in because I've taught him that I am not a target for his instincts....the rooster has already been conditioned to see humans as top predators, not as another animal. How? Because we move and expect the bird to move away from us and any bird that confronts or doesn't immediately give space while you are walking is moved upon, just walked right through as if they are not there...they are "chicken" after all, and the one that gives space is the weaker animal. Same with dogs..a dog that crowds your space, jumps up on you, is not aware of the nature of the human vs. the nature of dog..but they can learn to give you space, not touch your body unless invited, to remain calm when being handled. Same with roosters.

You don't have to be mean, merely assertive. I had a young rooster launch a sneak attack on me the other day. Now, I did not raise this rooster on my place, so know nothing of his earlier conditioning and have just obtained him recently, but he was stupid enough to not pick up on the flock's cues. Ran up behind me out of nowhere and bit me on the back of the leg and then turn and RAN. My immediate reaction was to reach for something that would equalize his fleetness of foot and my lack thereof and the only thing available was my walking stick, which was not a proper training tool but it was right at hand~the lessons have to take place immediately or they do not equate their actions with the reaction. I reached over with that stick and whomped the interloper on the back...once..hard~this is the same reaction he would have gotten from a top roo and it's the only language they fully understand. He's never done it again and gives me a wide berth whenever I approach. He learned he cannot run quickly enough or far enough to escape from the big predator, me, and that I'm not to be trifled with.

Every time I see him now I move towards him just to make him walk away..and that one lesson stuck in his feathery little head because unfailingly, he moves. For the rest of his time on this place he will be forced to move when I approach simply because I want him to...I don't want to snuggle him or place him on my lap. I desire that he act like a chicken to other chickens but not to me and that has been accomplished. I'll let you know if the training has stuck. I've never had to repeat a training session on a rooster, nor have I ever had to train a rooster that was raised by me from a chick...they learned from the flock how to interact with the human and so they are never confused when they reach sexual maturity.

I'm a firm believer that if you train up a rooster in the way that he should go, he will not depart from it...but be prepared... hormones can cloud his better judgement. Never take an intact male animal for granted, but handle then with cautious confidence. This doesn't mean you have to carry a stick or walk around in fear in your own yard...it means you keep that bird in the corner of your eye and he will be doing the same to you and that's a respectful relationship.

 

[Dreyadin]

Not worth the risk when you have a roo that thinks you are one of his hens- or his rival.. I like the ones that are clever enough to realize we are not chickens and still do their job. It doesn't make them a "marshmallow" (my nice roos- the first to protect their girls.)

*Even if you manage to convince them you are the top of the pecking order*... it doesn't seem to extend to the next person who comes to the property. At least with mine it never did... and that's a liability I am not risking.

 

[Beekissed]

Never had one of my roosters even vaguely approach another human voluntarily as they know that only one human is the source of food and the possibility of being fed is the only reason to approach a human. I think it all comes down to expecting chickens to be like other pets and that they would be docile, friendly and sociable to all other species~and especially to all other humans. I never expect that out of my chickens...I let them be chickens and don't inflict myself upon them by trying to pet them or hold them, hand feed them or make them into pets. I also don't encourage other humans to try and pet my chickens..they are chickens, not puppies. My flock are culled for general temperament along with other key traits, so don't think I encourage basic discourteous behavior towards humans or other species...I do not. But there is a fine line between domesticating a chicken and over domesticating them and it revolves around adjusting your perspective and your needs vs. wants.

 

[Triple Willow]

I've got news for you...there are no truly "bad" roosters...maybe some game roosters would qualify for that label, but that's an easy fix..don't get roosters of that breed.  At least, in the past 37 yrs of having roosters of several different breeds I've never met a "bad" one.  It's a male animal that is acting on pure instinct and some have more instinctive behavior than others but they are not "bad", merely being a rooster.  It's sort of like the Cesar Milan theory...it's not really the animal because they are just doing what animals do, instinctively...it's the human's perception of the animal's behavior that dictates how they react to it and how they treat the animal often results in the behaviors they receive from him.

Now, you can keep killing off roosters until you get one that has a low testosterone, low instinctual male characteristics but he won't be real brave out on range and he won't be your most active breeder...so essentially you are systematically breeding the most hen-like roosters into the gene pool.  A sort of neutering of the male chicken over time, which makes you feel comfortable and safe to have a big, soft mush kitten in your flock but it doesn't do much for the world of poultry.  People who think of poultry and flocks in terms of years and decades take these things into consideration a little more than those who don't think about chickens much at all except as pets who lay eggs. 

Killing off any rooster you feel is being too "roosterish" is a knee jerk reaction to an animal that is 2 ft. tall and has no teeth~spurs are easily and painlessly removed.  Children have been around roosters since time began and can be taught to handle them with confidence if the parent does the same.

I equate that with the family dog that jumps up on people..those sharp claws can easily wound a child's eyes, but do you see anyone getting rid of the dog if they can't teach it to stop jumping?  Nope.  You can use the same reasoning, though...there are many dogs out there that don't jump up, so just kill the one you have and get one that doesn't jump up on people.  Easy fix, isn't it? 

Or...you could simply teach the animal to refrain from his natural behavior of greeting humans with his feet.  Like you can teach a rooster to refrain from his instinctive behavior when around humans.  It takes all of 10 min. to school a rooster...about the same time it takes to kill him and process him, but with much less labor involved.  Actually, some roosters only take mere seconds to school and then you need not worry again, depending upon his ability to learn.  If I couldn't train a rooster after giving a good ol' college try, then I might consider eliminating him from the flock social structure...but I've not had to do that yet. 

I know that each will handle a problem like they handle most problems in life.  Most nowadays go for the easy fix, but it's a problem that will keep coming around with each consecutive rooster you get...how many roosters must die until you get one that won't make you afraid? I'm not against killing chickens..I do it all the time, but I've never killed one simply because I feared him.  There is a root cause for most every problem, so it's always best to handle the root cause instead of the symptoms of the cause.  If not, you'll be treating symptoms all your life when you could just have a cure.   

Good info!

 

[Triple Willow]

I've got a very good Black Australorp roo. Excellent rooster! However he has come after me about three different times to protect his women when I made them squawk and to protect chicks that he didn't want me to bother. I don't fault him a whole lot for that because he is supposed to protect them. However, we had to come to an understanding that attacking me just don't cut it! I can't remember what I did to him the first time but it didn't work. The second time I saw him coming so I tried to kick him like I would a Wilson football but only half-way landed my kick. That worked for a while. Then a pullet hatched out some chicks and that first morning he hit me before I could get in the coop door good! I picked up a light weight plastic feed tray and smacked him HARD with it 2-3 times! -rattled his brain for sure! I thought he was going down! LOL He survived it and hasn't bothered me since - right the opposite, he will break his neck climbing across things in the coop to give me lots and lots of room! LOL I will cut me one of those long thin switches, just in case. I'd hate for him to tick me off and me kill him not aiming to.

Bantygirl... I would get that little Polish roo down and remove his spurs if he has any and I would trim his toe nails and his beak. Then school him as Beekissed has instructed and see how he turns out. But don't let it go on, get ahead of him.

 

[Northie]

Hubby and I both grew up with animals and are kinda bossy in nature so I'm really worried about myself or him getting flogged or run off by an aggressive rooster. I worry more about the kids and or granny... Though it would be a foolish roo to get within range of granny's cane lol. As for the kids, it's easier to teach them how to behave with nice tempered animals, one's that will tolerate a few mistakes before I get a chance to intervene. We'll try to keep to the more docile breeds if we can and even then our guys our pretty little yet so we'll be keeping them close and well protected... Thanks for the info .

 

[Triple Willow]

Hubby and I both grew up with animals and are kinda bossy in nature so I'm really worried about myself or him getting flogged or run off by an aggressive rooster. I worry more about the kids and or granny... Though it would be a foolish roo to get within range of granny's cane lol. As for the kids, it's easier to teach them how to behave with nice tempered animals, one's that will tolerate a few mistakes before I get a chance to intervene. We'll try to keep to the more docile breeds if we can and even then our guys our pretty little yet so we'll be keeping them close and well protected... Thanks for the info .

If I had small kids I believe I would try getting them to always wear some cool sunglasses when around a questionable roo. If you have a crazy little kid like I was you could put a helmet with a face guard on it and turn them loose and dare the roo to mess up! LOL They could give him the "Beekissed Roo Schooling" and put the fear of small kids in him. LOL I remember one of my aunts having a couple of roos that were pretty aggressive. One day she told us to go catch the roosters and kill them because she was going to cook them for dinner. Well well well, we got our revenge on those roosters- and they were delicious! lol

 

[Northie]

If I had small kids I believe I would try getting them to always wear some cool sunglasses when around a questionable roo. If you have a crazy little kid like I was you could put a helmet with a face guard on it and turn them loose and dare the roo to mess up! LOL They could give him the "Beekissed Roo Schooling" and put the fear of small kids in him. LOL I remember one of my aunts having a couple of roos that were pretty aggressive. One day she told us to go catch the roosters and kill them because she was going to cook them for dinner. Well well well, we got our revenge on those roosters- and they were delicious! lol

Lol.... I could see DH having way too much fun dressing the kids up in riot gear and playing get the rooster... Poor thing would probably end up so traumatized he'd start laying eggs!

 

[Beekissed]

My boys would have liked that too..even as teens, if I had let them.

As it was my livestock and pets were terrorized enough by three boys being all the boys they could be...like the time they tried to herd the sheep using a rake and the riding lawn mower.

Or ricocheted a BB pellet off a tree and hit the dog in the eyelid with it...took him years to get over the fear of a gun showing up outdoors. Or the time I saw one of my very old layers with a big, pink spot on her flank....and limping..after there was a paint ball battle in the orchard. I was going to cull her for nonlaying anyway but I don't hold with unnecessary torture of the animals, so they caught it that time. They claimed it was an accidental shooting but I don't believe them. She started laying right after that and laid double yolk eggs for awhile before quitting again, that time for good. We laugh about it now but at the time I was not amused.