Barbu de Watermael lethal skull vault gene

[SarahLadd]

I'm looking to add to my flock as it is now aging and members are beginning to die of age-related illnesses. I love the wm, it is hands down my favorite breed. Currently I have greenfire farms birds but I have been looking around at what's available in the USA for wm now, not just from greenfire.

American watermaal were developed using silkies, and I have heard that someone working with American lines used a silkie with a lethal gene which causes severe neurological disorder and death by the first year, and now these carriers are present in most if not all American wm.

I want to know if anyone is aware of this and if it's in the greenfire line. I want to add more wm to my flock, but I don't want any ridiculous lethal genes.

 

[Amer]

That is false information. The vaulted skull is not caused by a lethal gene. The crest gene causes some bump to the skull. On some breeds it is higher than others. As far as I know, Silkies and all other crested breeds have the same gene causing this. Silkies can be more fragile because of their large vault but it's not known to cause death. I haven't actually known them to be more fragile, personally. But they are very stupid (this stupid behavior could be neurological issues however it could also be perceived due to their poor field of vision and inability to fly.) I don't like Silkies but unfortunately I've had plenty of experience with them.
Anyway, Watermaels with their small tuft aren't going to have any of those problems.

Another lie that is believed by the scientific community is that crests in ducks is caused by a lethal gene. Maybe there is a lethal crest gene, but my brother has been breeding homozygous Crested ducks for years and they have no problems whatsoever. I say homozygous because they only produce crested offspring. According to all of the published scientific articles on cresting they should be dead. Unfortunately genetics research isn't much of a priority for poultry.

 

[SarahLadd]

That is false information. The vaulted skull is not caused by a lethal gene. The crest gene causes some bump to the skull. On some breeds it is higher than others. As far as I know, Silkies and all other crested breeds have the same gene causing this. Silkies can be more fragile because of their large vault but it's not known to cause death. I haven't actually known them to be more fragile, personally. But they are very stupid (this stupid behavior could be neurological issues however it could also be perceived due to their poor field of vision and inability to fly.) I don't like Silkies but unfortunately I've had plenty of experience with them.
Anyway, Watermaels with their small tuft aren't going to have any of those problems.

Another lie that is believed by the scientific community is that crests in ducks is caused by a lethal gene. Maybe there is a lethal crest gene, but my brother has been breeding homozygous Crested ducks for years and they have no problems whatsoever. I say homozygous because they only produce crested offspring. According to all of the published scientific articles on cresting they should be dead. Unfortunately genetics research isn't much of a priority for poultry.

I'm interested to hear this take from you, I know you're very knowledgeable but the source I heard this from is also so now I have two reputable sources at odds. From what I understand, this gene causes the skull to not fully develop or be very squishy which lets the brain just kinda squeeze out of the cranium as they grow. Before now, I knew about a silkie gene that causes the fat pad on the skull to press on the head during development and cause neurological symptoms... but not a full on underdeveloped skull or skulls with holes.

 

[SarahLadd]

I want to also mention, the word "vaulted" I have always associated with polish, so I'm not sure why it's what my resource called the gene disorder. She said it's recessive but "sticky" and she tried 7 years to breed it out and couldn't do it. I guess American wm breeders have accepted this and are just allowing a certain portion of their hatch to die from it and even allowing some of these disordered birds to be breeders.

 

[Amer]

I want to also mention, the word "vaulted" I have always associated with polish, so I'm not sure why it's what my resource called the gene disorder. She said it's recessive but "sticky" and she tried 7 years to breed it out and couldn't do it. I guess American wm breeders have accepted this and are just allowing a certain portion of their hatch to die from it and even allowing some of these disordered birds to be breeders.

To me it sounds like there might be another recessive lethal gene in the mix causing these early deaths. There have been years where my d'Anvers chicks had poor hatches as well. This had nothing to do with Silkie genetics obviously. (Not this year though, they've been quite successful. I think it's the new blood from Chadwick Satterfield that is giving me a lively bunch.)

@Debbie292d breeds quality Silkies, do you have any problems with early deaths or lethal genes?

 

[Debbie292d]

To me it sounds like there might be another recessive lethal gene in the mix causing these early deaths. There have been years where my d'Anvers chicks had poor hatches as well. This had nothing to do with Silkie genetics obviously. (Not this year though, they've been quite successful. I think it's the new blood from Chadwick Satterfield that is giving me a lively bunch.)

@Debbie292d breeds quality Silkies, do you have any problems with early deaths or lethal genes?

Zero.

I am investigating who in my buff pen is causing splay legs though. This is definitely a gene with them.

I've been trying to test it out of them and I sadly think it's my lemon cuckoo roo. Changing roos today. It'll be another month or so to find out if I've got the culprit.

 

[SarahLadd]

To me it sounds like there might be another recessive lethal gene in the mix causing these early deaths. There have been years where my d'Anvers chicks had poor hatches as well. This had nothing to do with Silkie genetics obviously. (Not this year though, they've been quite successful. I think it's the new blood from Chadwick Satterfield that is giving me a lively bunch.)

@Debbie292d breeds quality Silkies, do you have any problems with early deaths or lethal genes?

D'anvers are the other breed most commonly thrown in, maybe they're getting this from the d'anvers. I don't know enough about this to speak on it. ...If I considered my own anecdotal experience with d'anvers so far, I would not consider this to be outside the realm of reason. I've had 2 d'anvers with unexplainable mystery problems that appear to be brain related, out of the 3 I have kept out of the years I've had chickens, 2/3 is ...pretty bad, to me.