Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[mountainvieworchards]

Trisha and Pickled , nice blue roos all around. Trisha I am glad you are working on all the Barnie traits with your blues, nice dark blue back on #1. And Pickled I love the width of your blue rooster. That is the breast width I love to see in Barnie roosters.

Andy

 

[tls_ranch]

Hi Andy Which blue roo do you like..the dark or the light?

I tried to get a picture of them standing together, but they had other ideas

The darker one does have much darker hackles and saddle. He just shines in the sunlight. I think I like his wing set better too..a little tighter and closer to the body.









My oldest (but still a "baby") pure cockerel...last son of my roo that I lost this year. He doesn't like his picture taken so he's always on the move.

He seems like a nice boy, but really needs to do some growing and get his tail in.


Two blue hens out trying to scrounge some of the first new green growth. I hope once it greens up around here that their leg color will come back a bit. Everyone had really nice yellow legs, until I penned them up and they didn't have any green grass to eat.

 

[mountainvieworchards]

Hi Andy Which blue roo do you like..the dark or the light?

I tried to get a picture of them standing together, but they had other ideas

The darker one does have much darker hackles and saddle. He just shines in the sunlight. I think I like his wing set better too..a little tighter and closer to the body.

It looks like the darker one is the one in the back behind the fence, and from the perspective of the photos he looks to be better, perhaps better type and also looks a bit more stocky and as you mentioned is holding his wing higher, and that one I think is better. I like blue with a darker lacing on the feather of the breast and a navy blue hackle.

Right now and carrying forward toward this winter breeding I have four blue laced 3/4 barnie pullets, and one blue cockerel. I am also carrying foward a silver blue pullet and a silver blue cockerel that can be used in either the blue or the silver project. I am thinking the silver project is going to be a longer endeavor than the blue project, but I already am three years into it so I will keep it going.

We had loads of rain in October and pretty mild temps so the grass is growing fast, I seeded all the garden and bare spots in the orchard with oats and clover and with pasture mix in places and germination was great and grass growing well, I will let the main flock onto these lush swards in a couple weeks. For now I am tossing my abundant greens from mangel beets, thousand head kale, sunflowers and lots of windfall apples to the birds. I have also started feeding waste hay to them that my sheep pull out of the hay feeder and then won't touch once its on the ground and wet. The chickens love this and glean alfalfa leaf from it.

I really like running the chickens in my orchard this time of year. They keep the grass away from the trunks and eat the windfalls. And the trees give them some cover from aerial attacks.

It is a relief to have weeded the flock down to a more manageable winter flock. I am still feeding a dozen roosters and will probably carry eight or nine over winter.

I have about 12 Barnevelder pullets (post culling) I am growing out waiting to lay for me, but boy they are being stingy this fall. I also have about five hens that I will be keeping through winter..

I am keeping about 60 layers all breeds over the winter and when they finally get going in force I should be swimming in eggs, but now its pretty slow.

I can't tell my 3/4 blue Barnie pullet eggs from my Barnie eggs so I feel good about how that trait transferred into the blues. Also the blue roos are very mellow. This I expected since they come from very mellow Barnies and Rocks.

I find the blue laced pullets with the dark hackles to be very attractive. I think having the dark hackles makes them more attractive than the BLRW hens I have seen. I think this variety will be very popular with backyarders when they become more available.

I went to the Fall Swap last weekend, which draws a big crowd, I had a few pullets to sell and like to visit with other chicken people. I took the kids and they really had a ball. What I found interesting was how few people had ever heard of Barnevelders. Also I sold the Barnie pullets easily and several people told me they had been looking for them and not been having any luck finding them. I guess being on this thread its easy to forget how rare Barnevelders are still. I sold my pullets for $20 to $25 each, and they were only about 12 weeks old and still had some growing to do. I consider this to be breaking even still taking my whole level of bird related expenses into account. My extra cockerels that I don't eat are sold at the livestock auction and bring anywhere from 2 to 8 bucks depending on size and demand on any particular day. There was another woman there selling some pullets from your stock they were nice, her name was Karen.


After yesterdays trick or treats I think I will be feeding the birds chocolate, maybe save on the dentist bills for the kids too. I am not sure if the chickens would even eat candy.

Take Care

Andy

 

[birdnbeast]

Yep, I had two TLS pullets, two pullets from Rob, and a pullet and cockerel from my mature flock (one hen from Andy's). Over the next couple of weeks we will re-weigh and re-evaluate the rest (lots of nice boys -- two of TLS) and put in mind the trios or pairs for spring grow-out....On look and style I cannot tell my home-growns from the TLS so I have to color code them. I think our breeding mixture is too similar and I keep a lot based on head type with other things being fairly equal =:~) My husband -- bless his heart he cannot really even seem to tell breeds apart -- will say something like "I really like these chicks, they must be from our big boy" I have to look and laugh 'cause they are Trish's! My one breed that doesn't have 'variety' and he can identify these based on type. I think he must play 'tupid on the others =:~)
k/

 

[tls_ranch]

Quote: Yeah, egg color seems to be back to "normal" barnie color with my blues too. I would love to see them several shades darker, but glad they aren't pale tan like the wyandottes I used. The blues sure have a good attitude...I have 1 adult roo and 2 mature cockerels that get along great. They can even be split up for a few days and go right back to being mates. My original barnie roos wanted to be the only flock leader and not share hens EVER. Maybe the easier roos are because of the Johan blood I added????

I still have way too many birds too, but can seem to part with any at this point as many are still growing out. For my blue project, I have around 12 blue pullet/hens, 3 mature roos/cockerels, 3 young blue cockerels, 1 "black" cockerel, 3 splash pullets, 2 "black" pullets and my awesome "black" hen who is now a designated broody since she's such a good mommy.

Haven't counted my pures and cornevelders lately. I just know I have too many, LOL.

edited to add:

The grass is just starting to come up again.. Sometimes I wish it was greener year-round here. I do have a very large "lawn" area of grass and clover, but the adult birds don't get too much time grazing up by the house. The juveniles do spend lots of time on the "lawn" and have beautiful yellow legs. I keep thinking I should plant a grazing area down near the coop, but not sure if I could justify the extra water during the summer to keep it green. We have soo much to irrigate as it is. I will be planting even more of a garden next year and most will probably go to feeding the chickens.

Andy thanks for the comments on the blue cockerels. That dark one is still my favorite, but I have 2 younger blues growing out. One light and one dark, but both seem to have richer coloring with less brassy tones so far. Both are huge bodied as they are by my huge blue roo x his blue daughters. I'm waiting to see how they grow up.

Trisha

PS Andy, Did you ever show that barnie pullet/hen???

 

[mountainvieworchards]

Hi Trisha

Yes we showed two of our Barnie hens. As you would expect there was not much competition, no other Barnevelder large fowl entered. My son showed one hen in the youth show and she took best Continental in a pretty small field. I put one in the open show and she had no other competition so it was easy to be no. 1.

I donated a nice Johan pullet the club auction and I am happy to say she attracted a lot of attention and raffle tickets. I think the shows are a good way to get people interested in the breed. My kids like being around other chicken kids and seem to learn a lot. They love the club raffle. The PNPA show is not as big as some of the other APA judged shows. Those that attend are all good spirited bunch and I am glad to say most of the winning goes to young people.

We also showed black copper marans pullets, a blue Plymouth rock pullet and barred rock pullet. All of them took prizes of one sort or the other.

I had no Barnie roosters that were in good shape for this event since my rooster was half naked and the cockerels are too young.

I am not sure how it works to show varieties that are not yet accepted in the APA. I suppose you could just for the heck of it.

One thing we should perhaps discuss is using or not using the black birds that come from the blue projects in breeding with pure double laced Barnevelders. I think we should be careful not to use these blacks from blues project birds and to be very careful about what happens to these birds so they don't enter the mainstream and compromise our pure Barnie lines, at least not until they are Barnie enough to be considered pure bloods. I realize this may be hard and if you sell them as "layers" they may still end up in someones breeding pen. This is one reason to be very careful in banding or toe punching chicks to make sure these birds don't end up in the breeding pen.

I asked a couple people at the shows how many generations is generally considered reasonable to include those from out cross in the breed. While typically the answer was it depends on type and closeness to SOP, the fraction of foreign blood given was usually 1/64. This seems like a reasonably safe number to me, without the benefit of having ever bred a line for six generations. From what I am seeing in my stock at 1/4 foreign blood and in yours at 1/8 foreign blood, I think that by 1/64, with careful selection, these project birds should be pretty much pure Barnevelders.

I would be interested in yours and others thoughts on this. I think its good to have a map of long term expectations and goals and if possible to reach some consensus on these matters, or to at least air the different opinions, the goal being the title of this thread.

One last note I finally have some pullets from your line, these are grandaughters of the two I got from you two years ago. From the originals I got only boys, I kept one of them and bred him to my Johan hens last spring. They are too young to tell much yet only about 12 weeks old, but I am hanging some hope on them to bring some darker shades to the eggs, the grandmas had nice egg color, so we shall see. They are only 1/4 Ledford, and 3/4 Johan. .

A general question, is anyone on this post looking at undercolor in their hens and roosters when making pairings? I have not been but will start looking at this this year, with an eye towards the level of light gray to dark gray in the undercolor.. My cockerels from this spring are showing almost pure black in breast.

Andy

 

[tls_ranch]

Andy,

Congrats on the show wins and being out there to spread info about Barnevelders.

I haven't been mixing the "blacks" into my pure breeding flock, but have sold the "black" pullets from the blue project as layers. They've been looking very good and you couldn't tell if they are "pure" or not. I've also kept the "cornevelders" from mixing in my pures, but this year's cornevelder pullets look amazing. Both my blues and "cornevelders" (need to eventually stop calling them that

) are getting very high % Barnevelder blood. The next blue chicks will be 5th generation in my flock...their offspring will be 6th what "old" time breeders would say are pretty much "pure'. After the 6th gen, I probably will be interbreeding all 3 of my lines as needed.

Many people don't condone out crossing of any sort, but from what I've heard and read is that the old time breeders crossed and mixed at will to improve certain traits in the breeds they were working with. Meeting the SOP is not dependent on "pure blood". But, I do understand people's concern with not knowing about their birds. I've sold hatching "Blue" hatching eggs had people sell off "blacks" that THEY hatched as "pure" barnevelders and claiming the blacks are carrying blue genes

. But that was out of my hands and despite clear info provided by me. With that, my only comfort is that the blacks I've raised from my blue project are (even at their worst) still better quality than you can buy from the hatcheries.

I've been watching undercolor mainly in my cockerels because the vB line had some white showing in the under-fluff of the hackle and saddle area. My hens are dark slate, but the males showed the problem. I've been trying to select for darker under fluff in males and had some success. I'll keep at it. I will be adding more Johan blood this year and it will be interesting to see the results.

Trisha

 

[Happy Chooks]

I agree on keeping the blacks from the blue matings out of the breeding flock. They will be going to a friend that has an egg business - she doesn't breed at all, so it's a safe place for me to get rid of the black pullets (and any culls).

I have Trisha's eggs in my bator, and I will not be keeping any of the black chicks. Only if I get a blue or splash pullet. I will be keeping records too - when I hatch, I'll separate the blue/splash girls to ensure my blacks are pure still. And I'll also know who is offspring of the blues.

 

[tls_ranch]

I agree on keeping the blacks from the blue matings out of the breeding flock. They will be going to a friend that has an egg business - she doesn't breed at all, so it's a safe place for me to get rid of the black pullets (and any culls).

I have Trisha's eggs in my bator, and I will not be keeping any of the black chicks. Only if I get a blue or splash pullet. I will be keeping records too - when I hatch, I'll separate the blue/splash girls to ensure my blacks are pure still. And I'll also know who is offspring of the blues.

Kelly,
It is easier just to get rid of the blacks and only keep the blues so they don't mix with your pure barnevelders. But, you may be surprised at how nice some of those blacks might look. If you had a pen just for "blues" you could band them or toe punch and keep them in with the blues. I was just out watching my birds playing around in the sunshine. One "black" cockerel and one "black" pullet kept catching my eye. They are from the blue project but look very nice with beautiful lacing, size and full tails. I may keep them...who knows they may outshine some of my pure barnevelders. I have 8 youngsters from the same "match up" as the eggs I sent you. I really, really like they way they look in body and they are very good growers.


Trisha

 

[Happy Chooks]

Quote:
Yeah, I won't be keeping the blacks. But when I mate a blue girl back, I will get some blacks - that is the keeping track I was referring to. Hopefully I get splash girls, then I won't have to worry because all offspring will be blue. (until I mate them back)

Unfortunately, I don't have a separate area. Another coop would be great, but it's not going to happen anytime soon. So I'll just have to keep really good records until then.

At some point, maybe it won't be necessary. I'm super excited for them to hatch this Thursday!