Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[sherpagirl]

My favorite barnie hen one of my originals. She's currently raising about 20+ chicks.





Trisha

I love the look of this hen, she looks a lot like some of my originals that are 4 years old now, how old is she? Is she still laying?

 

[sherpagirl]

My one silver project pullet. Don't like her head shape, but she's huge. I still don't know if I will continue with the project....just don't have the coop space right now.




Trisha

The lacing on your silver looks great! Mine haven't feathered out yet, but I'm not expecting them to look that good! I can't remember, did you use an SPPR roo?

 

[tls_ranch]

My favorite barnie hen one of my originals. She's currently raising about 20+ chicks. Trisha

I love the look of this hen, she looks a lot like some of my originals that are 4 years old now, how old is she? Is she still laying?

She's five and still layed pretty well this year. I just love her Double- mating is where you have to keep separate lines to produce show quality birds of each sex. So, you have cockerel and pullet lines. It is done with many breeds and color patterns. For barnies, it could mean having show roosters with laced breasts, but the hens would be poorly laced...more single laced with lots of red....so that would be a cock breeding line. A pullet breeding line would have dark Roos with solid black breasts and show quality pullets. I be seen some pics of pullet vs cock breeding lines in other breeds...very different. Dark shading on feet and shanks should be selected against. But don't worry too much unless it gets really bad. Barnies have soo many melanizers that are needed for proper color...these tend to cause the shading. So, it's a challenge to keep clean yellow legs ( on females especially) and the proper melanizers needed for good color and lacing. Some older hens get more shading as they age, but as pullets had pretty much clean legs. Never keep a cockerel with dark shading on the shanks because that causes more problems than its worth. Trisha

 

[tls_ranch]

My one silver project pullet. Don't like her head shape, but she's huge. I still don't know if I will continue with the project....just don't have the coop space right now. Trisha

The lacing on your silver looks great! Mine haven't feathered out yet, but I'm not expecting them to look that good! I can't remember, did you use an SPPR roo?

Yes I used a SPPR. My pullet is just a f1 cross, but I was lucky to get her. My neighbor hatched out dozens more from the same parents and has yet to get one as nicely marked as this one. I really want to keep her I will have to get a small coop just for the silvers if I am going to keep going with he project. Easier Said than done...I am pretty much passed my " chicken limit". Trisha

 

[sherpagirl]

She's five and still layed pretty well this year. I just love her

Double- mating is where you have to keep separate lines to produce show quality birds of each sex. So, you have cockerel and pullet lines. It is done with many breeds and color patterns. For barnies, it could mean having show roosters with laced breasts, but the hens would be poorly laced...more single laced with lots of red....so that would be a cock breeding line. A pullet breeding line would have dark Roos with solid black breasts and show quality pullets. I be seen some pics of pullet vs cock breeding lines in other breeds...very different.

Dark shading on feet and shanks should be selected against. But don't worry too much unless it gets really bad. Barnies have soo many melanizers that are needed for proper color...these tend to cause the shading. So, it's a challenge to keep clean yellow legs ( on females especially) and the proper melanizers needed for good color and lacing. Some older hens get more shading as they age, but as pullets had pretty much clean legs. Never keep a cockerel with dark shading on the shanks because that causes more problems than its worth.


Trisha

Interesting, as you see i haven't done my homework. I think I've mostly been focusing on keeping this Johan line going (fertility mostly) and egg color (which was relatively simple to improve) and now I need to address the other issues either to preserve what i have going on or improve it ( always room for improvement!). I am in love with your hen too.

 

[sherpagirl]

Yes I used a SPPR. My pullet is just a f1 cross, but I was lucky to get her. My neighbor hatched out dozens more from the same parents and has yet to get one as nicely marked as this one. I really want to keep her I will have to get a small coop just for the silvers if I am going to keep going with he project. Easier Said than done...I am pretty much passed my " chicken limit".

Trisha

Wow, you are really lucky, that is crazy good lacing.

 

[mountainvieworchards]

Short comments;

Good to see all the recent posts.

Breast color male
I know you did not exactly propose it Trisha but it sounds like you would be in favor of changing the APA standard for the breast color of the roosters. I am inclined to agree with that position. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I happen to think the black breasted males look sharp and I recall reading the justification for establishing males with laced breasts in USA was sort of arbitrary and not based on a good population laced breasted males.

We would be much further ahead as breeders would be doing the breed a greater service by changing the breast to black. I would just add a me too to all the reasons Trisha gave on her recent post. I am not sure how to go about changing the standard and doubt if I will lead the charge since I am not too concerned with showing, but for the long term good of the breed I would help with the effort. I have not seen many males in feather or pictures with the breast as stated in the SOP.

Silvers
I agree with Donna, that silver hen of yours look very good for lacing Trisha. She has nice silver too. Mine are not looking well as juvies and have too much red coming through, ho hum.

As far as yellow legs go, I like them screaming bright yellow on my Barnevelders. I guess I took Pickledchicken's comment about toning down the yellow legs as a tongue-in-cheek compliment to Trisha about her birds leg color. Maybe maybe not hard to tell on here sometimes when people are kidding or serious.

Marigolds and yellow corn
try any garden center Royce, or grow your own from seed. I never heard about using marigolds for yellowing, I will try it. I agree that yellow corn and pasture or any green feed helps with leg yellow and yolk dark yellow. Yellow corn gets a bad rap from some corners, but I feed it all the time in my scratch mix part yellow corn, part whole wheat and part whole oat as a base and now and then with other seeds. If you want to increase the yellow in their legs and put yellow fat on your eating birds then feed yellow corn, if you want to put white fat on them then feed them oats. When I am fattening my birds I feed corn to the yellow skinned birds and oats to the white skinned birds and I think it makes a better looking carcass. Those that buy the eggs from me for the table are more impressed with dark yolk color than dark shell color, or so they say.

Nice to see all the new people coming to this thread. Seems like the Barnevelders are doing well and gaining in popularity.

I am done hatching for the summer but still have one pen together and have been selling eggs to people who's hens are going broody. We are just having our first hot weather (90's this week) and I feel lucky when I hear the high temps some of you experience in CA, TX and AZ. My birds are still on lush green pasture here in Western Oregon, a great climate for poultry I think. Frozen combs? Not here. Birds that die from heat waves? Not here. Too much rain in the winter? Yep, Too muddy, Yep. Well no where I have lived is perfect. .

Mink and pests
Are these wild mink or mink farm escapees? I think a mink or a weasel can squeeze through a hole if their head can squeeze through. They are tough customers on chickens and the weasels I have seen are smaller than mink. I have seen both mink and weasel active in the daytime and used to see mink hunting in the cattails down at the lake when we would go fishing during the day. I would try trapping them with a kill snare if I were you. Put it in a tube leading into the coop, that way you will only kill a guilty one and you won't have to bait it.

Speaking of pests, recently I opened the egg box after dark and in the dark I saw something move quickly with a bright white line and I don't have any chickens with white stripes and even if I did they wouldn't spend the night in the nest box. Since then I am more careful about checking for eggs after dark. I am not sure how the skunk got in the pen since I couldn't find any holes. He was eating eggs after dark, so I baited a live trap with a couple tiny pullet eggs and caught him two days later. He didn't kill my chickens luckily, but they roost a little higher than he can reach I think. In BC you could also have pine martens and fishers, they are bigger than mink and weasels. We were plagued with a bobcat several times, they can rip through a flock pretty fast too. I have had some luck live trapping them too. Around here possums often will kill young chickens if they can catch them huddled near the side of the pen at night. So far this spring I have trapped coon, possum and skunk all relocated far away. I am tempted to eat a possum one of these days, someone told me they taste like chicken.

Andy

 

[islandgal99]

Thanks Andy,

These mink on the island would be wild mink. I like the idea of a snare trap, I'll go to recycling and see what sorts of tubes I can get. If one does show up, I have a chance and if it doesn't then it won't affect the other critters. I remember getting a weasel once that went into a long pipe.

Tonight I did wrap the pen my broody Barnie will be in with 1/4 wire, and made sure there are no holes. And I think I will do the same with the regular Barnie pen and for the brooder pen when the babies go outside. I'd be sad if the other breeds were attacked, but devastated if my Barnies were taken as they were pretty hard for me to get, hard to replace and I'm pretty attached.

 

[Tailfeathers]

Ok, here's my last rant about the lacing issue.

I was attracted to barnevelders because the hens were so beautiful with their intricate double lacing. I thought amazing....I can have a whole flock of stunning hens and a pretty rooster too. Most other breeds have gorgeous fancy roosters, but rather plain hens. The Barnevelder hen is the STAR of this breed....she is amazingly beautiful with intricate lacing, lays well and produces a beautiful rich brown egg. Most people keep chickens for the hens...not the pretty roosters that are illegal in many areas due to noise issues.

Now a lot of research has proven that breeding for laced breasted males will result in poor female lacing. I do not want to keep a flock of 12 -20 poorly laced hens that I can't show in order to keep 2-3 laced breasted roosters for show. I would rather breed for stunningly, laced hens that amaze everyone that sees them. Hens with intricate lacing that can be enjoyed, admired and kept as pets by people who can't even keep roosters.

Trisha

PS,

Notice that the Barnevelder club logo has a picture of a hen...not a rooster. They have decided that the hen is more important...after all hens lay the eggs right?

Short comments;

Good to see all the recent posts.

Breast color male
I know you did not exactly propose it Trisha but it sounds like you would be in favor of changing the APA standard for the breast color of the roosters. I am inclined to agree with that position. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I happen to think the black breasted males look sharp and I recall reading the justification for establishing males with laced breasts in USA was sort of arbitrary and not based on a good population laced breasted males.

We would be much further ahead as breeders would be doing the breed a greater service by changing the breast to black. I would just add a me too to all the reasons Trisha gave on her recent post. I am not sure how to go about changing the standard and doubt if I will lead the charge since I am not too concerned with showing, but for the long term good of the breed I would help with the effort. I have not seen many males in feather or pictures with the breast as stated in the SOP.

Silvers
I agree with Donna, that silver hen of yours look very good for lacing Trisha. She has nice silver too. Mine are not looking well as juvies and have too much red coming through, ho hum.

As far as yellow legs go, I like them screaming bright yellow on my Barnevelders. I guess I took Pickledchicken's comment about toning down the yellow legs as a tongue-in-cheek compliment to Trisha about her birds leg color. Maybe maybe not hard to tell on here sometimes when people are kidding or serious.

Marigolds and yellow corn
try any garden center Royce, or grow your own from seed. I never heard about using marigolds for yellowing, I will try it. I agree that yellow corn and pasture or any green feed helps with leg yellow and yolk dark yellow. Yellow corn gets a bad rap from some corners, but I feed it all the time in my scratch mix part yellow corn, part whole wheat and part whole oat as a base and now and then with other seeds. If you want to increase the yellow in their legs and put yellow fat on your eating birds then feed yellow corn, if you want to put white fat on them then feed them oats. When I am fattening my birds I feed corn to the yellow skinned birds and oats to the white skinned birds and I think it makes a better looking carcass. Those that buy the eggs from me for the table are more impressed with dark yolk color than dark shell color, or so they say.

Nice to see all the new people coming to this thread. Seems like the Barnevelders are doing well and gaining in popularity.

I am done hatching for the summer but still have one pen together and have been selling eggs to people who's hens are going broody. We are just having our first hot weather (90's this week) and I feel lucky when I hear the high temps some of you experience in CA, TX and AZ. My birds are still on lush green pasture here in Western Oregon, a great climate for poultry I think. Frozen combs? Not here. Birds that die from heat waves? Not here. Too much rain in the winter? Yep, Too muddy, Yep. Well no where I have lived is perfect. .

Mink and pests
Are these wild mink or mink farm escapees? I think a mink or a weasel can squeeze through a hole if their head can squeeze through. They are tough customers on chickens and the weasels I have seen are smaller than mink. I have seen both mink and weasel active in the daytime and used to see mink hunting in the cattails down at the lake when we would go fishing during the day. I would try trapping them with a kill snare if I were you. Put it in a tube leading into the coop, that way you will only kill a guilty one and you won't have to bait it.

Speaking of pests, recently I opened the egg box after dark and in the dark I saw something move quickly with a bright white line and I don't have any chickens with white stripes and even if I did they wouldn't spend the night in the nest box. Since then I am more careful about checking for eggs after dark. I am not sure how the skunk got in the pen since I couldn't find any holes. He was eating eggs after dark, so I baited a live trap with a couple tiny pullet eggs and caught him two days later. He didn't kill my chickens luckily, but they roost a little higher than he can reach I think. In BC you could also have pine martens and fishers, they are bigger than mink and weasels. We were plagued with a bobcat several times, they can rip through a flock pretty fast too. I have had some luck live trapping them too. Around here possums often will kill young chickens if they can catch them huddled near the side of the pen at night. So far this spring I have trapped coon, possum and skunk all relocated far away. I am tempted to eat a possum one of these days, someone told me they taste like chicken.

Andy

I have not seen said research but must admit that I don't have the time to research like I would like to. I will say that with the RC's, that hasn't been my experience. The lacing on the gals are just as good as my Standards. So I guess I'll find out as I go along. I also happen to think that the Barnie male is every bit as much a STAR of the breed as the females. Just my personal opinion. When the birds were accepted, as it is for every breed, there is a requirement to have males and females, young and old. There's a reason for that.

I am totally opposed to changing the SOP just for the sake of going to an all black breast because it's "easier". It's called the Standard of PERFECTION for a reason! It ain't supposed to be easy. I also do not see how we "would be much further ahead" by going back and destroying the foundation that has already been laid. There was a LOT of effort undertaken by those who got the breed accepted into the APA in the first place. To go back and try and reinvent the wheel at this point is not only going backwards but it also is doing a disservice to those who went thru the time, effort, and expense to get them accepted in the first place. And I do not think it is doing the breed any disservice whatsoever to keep the SOP as it is right now. Nor does it do the breed a greater service by changing to all black breasts in the males. That is simply a personal preference and one that was not accepted when the breed was.

I would venture to guess that two of the reasons, Andy, that you haven't seen males with lacing in their breasts is because #1 - there aren't that many folks breeding and showing Barnies and #2 - there are likely even fewer who have made any attempt at all to get lacing in the breasts of the males.

I certainly respect you as a breeder and you're doing a fine job with your birds. A very fine job. But if you don't plan to show then why worry at all about what the SOP says? Just breed your birds to whatever you want them to be. Trisha, same thing. If it turns out that double mating is required for nicely laced males and females, then so be it. If you don't want to double mate, then just keep breeding and showing the females. No problem. The SOP for Barnies has been established for 22 years. And now there's talk about changing it because it's easier to breed males without the lacing? If we start down that road, why not let every green legged bird with a beard and muffs be called an Ameraucana?

Thanks for the heads up on the marigold.

God Bless,

 

[Happy Chooks]

Quote: Yes I used a SPPR. My pullet is just a f1 cross, but I was lucky to get her. My neighbor hatched out dozens more from the same parents and has yet to get one as nicely marked as this one. I really want to keep her I will have to get a small coop just for the silvers if I am going to keep going with he project. Easier Said than done...I am pretty much passed my " chicken limit".

Trisha

She's gorgeous Trisha! I hope you are able to continue with the silvers.