Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[poultch]

Poultch, that is not what I meant to say, I meant to say, that there is much more to breeding a Barnevelder than just selecting for egg color. That is the easy part.
The Barnevelder has a written standard that it needs to fit in order to be called a Barnevelder, egg color should not be neglected that is just obvious.
You can read more on the history on this page: http://www.barnevelderclub.us/history.html
Piet

thanks for the link Piet, I have read it and I find these historical accounts interesting, particularly if you can combine it with a bit of qualitative genetics knowledge to de-code what is written.

But you say breeding for and achieving egg colour in the Barnies is easy? Frankly, I baulk at that statement.

However, I also never said that all else should be ignored, I agree that there is a lot to take note of in breeding Barnies, this is in part why I like them, they are a challenge

 

[Piet]

Poultch, picking only the darkest eggs to hatch from is easy and my neigbour can do that for me also. But in order to breed to the standard, you have to know the standard and with some time and experience you learn what works and what not. That is much harder than selecting for egg color. You know that. Also there are production strains in Holland that do better in the egg department, but to get the best of both worlds would be nice huh?
Piet

 

[bayocum]

Hi All,
Just wanted to get some feedback from the experts. We received this little one from Greenfire as a "packing peanut." What say you? Cockerel or pullet? This is 14 weeks old. Thanks!

 

[Redcap]

Definitely a blue laced Cockerel

 

[Happy Chooks]

Definitely a blue laced Cockerel

x2

 

[tarahtt]

Are there any barnevelder breeders near Joplin MO?

 

[chikkinlittlesc]

I have always wanted some Barnvelders, but they are a bit pricey. I have about 25 chickens and love to try different breeds. If the eggs or chicks were a little less in price, I would love to have some and promote the breed.

 

[bayocum]

x2

Thanks everybody. So when do they develop hackles?

 

[poultch]

Poultch, picking only the darkest eggs to hatch from is easy and my neigbour can do that for me also.
...

It’s way more complicated than that Piet, that method is entry level approach, fine and a near enough is good enough if larger flock breeding ie more than a couple hens per pen.
I’ll try and give you 2-3 examples to help you see my point.
(sorry for those that have probably seen these arguments done to death in other dark egg layer threads but this is one of the only threads I read here at BYC)
An area of egg colour that Redcap brushed on was consistency of colour throughout and into the deeper part of the laying season Below are 3 of my Barnevelders that I bred from a couple yrs back, picture was taken at about 6month into first season lay.


The 2 on the left were full sisters, the one on the right from another ‘family group/maternal line’ The one on the very left started off laying superbly dark eggs, with a magnificent bloom, but it deteriorated much faster than the other 2, and by the end of month 7-satrt of month 8, her egg colour was decidedly poorer than the other 2 which were virtually unchanged from the colour above.

Another point that I have seen and Trisha has mentioned with her indian game cross and is evidenced in some of the historical accounts is probably what I would put down to overdominance. When a cross of 2 strains or breeds produce improved over and above both parental strains or breeds. Overdominance is one of the casues to heterosis, and we know that heterotic effects aren’t heritable. The pic below was taken 3.5 years ago at about month 3-4 of lay just as the colour ive found to start to taper off.


The outer left are from 2 blue females, second from right is a standard hen, and the row on the far right is that of a 3rd generation Chamois. Her mother did not lay eggs that colour, and neither did her sire throw females when mated to my other standard hens yield that intense colour. Now her dtrs and grandtrs have not achieved that colour either, but they are nonetheless good, but they have stabilised to my flock average (because I continuously backcross every generation in all my projects back to my standard lines) And incidently her egg colour dropped away at a greater rate also.

Thirdly the standard hen that layed the eggs on second from right I targeted to give me my following seasons breeding males, as she herself was from a maternal line that consistently laid nice coloured eggs (her mother and grdmother). I reared and used 2 of her best typed sons, and last year both of these sons dtrs had their first laying season. One threw dtrs on average that were well below the colour of their mothers and the other, he was about middle (but didn’t make it worse like his full brother). These 2 ckls were sired by an ‘outcross’ rooster from a friend of mine which we work loosely together on our Barnies, but he employs the method you have outlined, only keeping males and females from the best coloured eggs So the difference in the genetic potential of these 2 full brothers was only identified by a crude progeny test system, well beyond the scope of ‘your neighbour’ Piet.

However, that point you make about ‘your neighbour’ is still in my opinion, a relevant one, but I look at it from a different angle. A lay person to nuances of the Barnevleder, will want this great breed (in my experience) for primarly the egg colour and the ‘pretty lacing’ they wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a exceptionally laced bird or a poor one, or too larger comb, sway back, hairy face, masculine head etc etc. But they will notice if she doesn’t lay a good coloured egg, or that the colour fades quickly to that of their Wyandottes or Rocks. Then this breed is relegated in their eyes as Rachel earlier put it perfectly, ‘to just a pretty pet’
And for me at least these ‘consumers’ of Barnevelders are just as important as the breeders, if not moreso, without them wanting to have them Id have no one to sell my surplus culls as backyard layers to, therefore I couldn’t exert any selection pressure in my breeding programme and couldn’t as the title of this thread says; ‘work to improve the breed’.
So I don’t trivialise the egg colour of the barnies at all Piet, or as you have put it ‘not get excited about’. Because I know that is the reason why the barnevelder surged in popularity over a 100 years ago and that root driver still remains today.

 

[mountainvieworchards]

Good post Poutch


Can you explain what a chamois is, and also a little more about what histerosis is in breeding?
Nice egg color.

Thanks

Andy