Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[WestKnollAmy]

I know that someone has bantam Barnies, I think maybe Julie Gabbard does.
On the Yahoo Barnevelder group someone is talking about this. I don't care for banties too much and haven't paid attention.

 

[Teach97]

Julie Gabbard - who is this person! I must talk! Yahoo group you say...second person to tell me this...I might have to join that but I don't want another set of info to loose!

 

[Tailfeathers]

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Nadine, you ask a good question. Let me see if I can give a good answer.

When you buy stock from another breeder you are NOT getting what they already have. For example, I bought 10 WBS Ameraucana chicks from Paul Smith. Paul got his original birds mostly from Wayne Meredith but also some from Barbara Campbell. Barbara got her original started birds from Wayne too. I got 8 different lines from Paul. Once I finish my breeding program I will have a total of 15 different lines. The folks that are buying hatching eggs from me right now are getting eggs with each egg marked as to which breeding pen it came from. So does that mean that they are all going to get birds that are like the ones Wayne original sent Paul or Barbara. Does it mean that I have the same birds as Paul? Or that someone getting chicks from my #15 pen is gonna wind up with the same birds that I get from my #15 pen? Not at all.

And you asked, what "good" is it? Well, I plan to keep in touch with those who get birds from me. I can use the information such as: How’s their color? Confirmation? Egg color? Egg size? Egg productivity? Were there any faults or DQ’s? How are the BW eggs compared to the Wheatens? That sort of stuff in comparison with mine to determine what my next breeding will be.

In other words, I not only have the ability to go back to Paul and ask him about things that pertain to my birds but I can follow up with those who have my progeny to determine any corrective actions I need to take in my breeding programs.

The "problem" (for lack of a better word) with getting hatchery stock is that you simply have too many Unknown Factors. You must start from scratch because you have no ability to go back to a source to detect or determine a problem.

As for the statement "Just because they come from a hatchery doesn't mean they are bad stock", that may be true. However, one simply cannot with any degree of sincerity fail to admit that the probability of the stock not coming even close to the SOP is exponentially higher than that from a breeder.

The fact is a hatchery gets eggs from someone so they don't know for certain what the breeding process even was. All they can do is take the word of the person who sells them their eggs. Some hatcheries do maintain their own stock but, even with that being the case, the goal of a hatchery is to "mass produce" eggs for sale in order to make as much money as they can. That is a completely different goal than that of the breeder.

Now, I'm not saying that one can't take hatchery stock and make it better - or even end up with a Show Winner. Certainly one can. I am just trying to answer the question "what good is it" and am saying that the process to do so will take much more time, effort, and expense because of the unknown factors.

Btw, for what it's worth, I tried that with Welsummers. I waited over 18 months to get birds from a breeder that I had planned on getting some from but she was having fertility problems and couldn't get me any. So I got impatient and wound up getting over three or four dozen chicks from three or four different hatcheries. In a very short period of time I culled over half and now have 3 or 4 left out of all of them. I got chicks with stubs. I got chicks with gray in their feet. I got birds that developed white in their feathers. I culled some for crooked breasts. I culled for poor coloring or confirmation. And then several for egg color.

The fact that I wound up with 3 or 4 good birds out of almost 50 coupled with the arguments I made above, I think speaks volumes as to why one should get birds from a breeder if they are truly wanting to preserve, protect, and improve the breed.

Finally, just something to think about as well, the fact that I got 3 or 4 birds out of almost 50 from a hatchery that were worth keeping, I believe is another reason why people who are serious about a particular breed should NOT by from a hatchery. If a hatchery can't make money on a specific breed, they won't sell it. If they won't sell it, they won't buy eggs from those who are selling them that breed's eggs. If those folks can't sell their eggs to hatcheries, they will get something else, and the natural consequence is that only those serious about the breed will perpetuate it which means a much higher QC standard will be maintained and all the faults and DQ's of the breed will be eradicated that much quicker.

IMHO.

God Bless,

 

[MissChessy]

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Ideal was sold out until 2010 in February of this year.

Wow! Darn, I thought they would have the Barnvelders until June of this year, but I guess not. Oh well, onto the next breed of chickens.

 

[WestKnollAmy]

Royce, I believe you have a whole different out look than I do on breeding birds.
I was like you when I was breeding horses and dogs. Wore me completely out to find most others did not share the same beliefs that I did but still had some great winners.
I had to back up and look at how I was obsessed with something that was working me to death. For many reasons, I stopped breeding Quarter Horses and Boston Terriers, though we had many top winners.
The chickens are fun to work with but I refuse to let them totally suck me in. I will do my best to have the best I can. What I choose to breed and work with may not be up to your standards but I refuse to breed til I am pulling my hair out with all my life savings and many hours of contacting people. This is a hobby for me and not a life long dream.
I keep records of all you mentioned but I don't follow my birds to their new home. The new owners will likely out cross anyhow and it is none of my business how or what they do.
Be glad there are people like me out here breeding. We help with the breed, even in our casual sense of breeding hatchery and breeder birds.
I am glad there are serious breeders like you out there. I love Barnies and would love to see them improve but I am not going to devote my life to it. I haven't the time or the money but I can guarantee that my birds will still be wonderful, just maybe not to you.
I value your opinions and insights with breeding but may not take the same road you do. And no, I am not mad about what you said. I know what you believe about breeding and now you know what I believe. I hope I didn't offend.

 

[Tailfeathers]

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I agree chickens are fun to work with and I don't let them totally suck me in or monopolize my life either. The ONLY thing that I allow to monopoize my life is the Lord. He is my life and I live for him. My whole desire with breeding birds is that they will bring Him glory.

Poultry is a hobby for me too but I'm a bit of a Perfectionist at times with my hobby. As for being up to "my standards', that really is irrelevant. I'm a firm believe in to each his own.

I too hope I did not offend you as well. Most of what I wrote was for others and just to answer the question, "What good is it?"

One of the major reasons why I get my birds from the breeder is so that I can save time towards getting the results I'm after. Time is possibly the biggest thing I am in the most shortest supply of.

I don't stay in touch with the folks who buy eggs and chicks from me to be nosey or try to control what they do with them in any way, shape, or fashion. I stay in touch with them for the sole purpose of getting information from them on what they got which in turn will be helpful to me in future breeding sessions. If they should choose to not want to continue to communicate, that is entirely their right and up to them.

I am glad for folks like you. Shucks, I'm glad for anyone involved with poultry. It's a great thing!

God Bless,

 

[Ewe Mama2]

I'm responding to people who were searcing for Barnevelder eggs. I placed an order at mypetchicken.com for the bantam Barnevelders about 4 weeks ago. Someone from customer service called to let me know that they wouldn't be available right away (I already knew that from the website). She said the bantam eggs would be available in about 3-4 weeks. I then asked her how long it would be before the standard Barnevelders were available (they were sold out on the site). She said they could arrive in 3 weeks. I switched my order to the standard and my eggs arrived today (after only waiting two weeks). This is my first attempt at hatching, so I don't have any experience with the quality of their hatching eggs, but they were packaged wonderfully. Not a single crack. If you really want fertile Barnevelder eggs, it couldn't hurt to give mypetchicken.com a try. Customer service rep was very nice and knowledgeable.

 

[ArizonaDesertChicks]

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Are they eggs a dark brown?

 

[Tailfeathers]

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Could you post of us some pics of the eggs or send me an email with pics? I'd like to see the color and size.

Also, does PetChicken have their own Barnies or are they buying eggs from someone else? Were you able to see the birds that the eggs came from? If so, can you get us pics of those? I'd like to see their conformation, headshape, lacing quality, etc.

God Bless,

 

[Ewe Mama2]

The eggs I ordered came from Gabbard Farms. I ordered through mypetchicken.com, and did not see pics of the breeding chickens. I'm a newbie at all of this, so I probably didn't ask all the correct questions that someone with a lot more experience would have done. I can't send pics as I am not that technologically hip. Some of you asked how "dark" the eggs were. Since I don't know how "dark" the scale should be, I can't really give you an answer. There were some fairly dark aggs as well as some lighter brown ones. I'm not that concerned about the actual shade of brown, as I was more interested in their personalities. When I decided to raise chicken, I read about every breed I could find and Barnevelders were a perfect match for my needs. I don't know if that helps or not.