Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[tls_ranch]

I will try, they are on my old computer...that room doesn't have AC...it is probably about 100 in there right now. On the bright side, I got 12 eggs today from 20 hens. It is 114 today. I haven't lost any to heat this year either.


Trisha

How do you keep your chickens cool in that kind of heat?  It's been about 100 here a few days and they were all panting like crazy.  Scared me!  I think it's going to be a hot summer, so any advice you have is appreciated!  (also, thank you Trisha for the links to pictures - VERY helpful!)

I use Water misters that also wet an area for them to stand in. Yesterday was awful and it got humid too. My birds do pant, but the important thing was that none died. I lost a few last year to the heat and this year I also moved all my adults to the hotter side of the coop. I want them heat tolerant and if they don't perform well, I don't keep them.

Trisha

 

[fowlman01]

Best I can do at translating German.

http://translate.google.com/transla...w.sv-barnevelder.de/?seite=musterbeschreibung

And

http://translate.google.com/transla...p://www.sv-barnevelder.de/?seite=rasseartikel

To me at least, the pictures of laced breasts in the German standard still don't look like they sound to me in the APA standard.

Breast: Each feather reddish brown with a sharply defined lacing of lustrous, greenish black.

Sharp to me means more like a thin edge. A problem in translation? Any way the German standard now reads (still poorly translated) more like " wide black out seam" . To me they look thickly laced in black, not sharply laced. And yes with a brown center...

And straight from Walt:

"FYI: The APA tends to go with the description that is used in the originating country. Is that different than the APA description?"

Answer...yes.


Trisha

Sharp has nothing to do with the width of the lacing. Sharp means a well defined line. Do you have a current APA Standard? If so, read the first 40 pages. That is where you learn to understand the terms. The APA Standard has much more descriptive info than any other countries Standard that I have seen and I have most of them. Sometimes Standards are purposely vague to allow some wiggle room. Please stop taking what I say out of context. As I have posted on here many times. The APA does not always go with the country of origin....we like to when it is feasible. In the case of the Barnies the people who brought us the Standard chose to go with the another Standard. They were very well versed in chickens......maybe not as well versed as you, but never the less knowledegable.

Walt

 

[pickledchicken]

Trisha what is the whole point of your argument if you never intend to show ? It's been page after page of of why you need the standard changed and people have taken the time to explain the order in which this could be achieved. The SOP is a guideline there is no perfect bird if we could get a handful of folks that would show we could all compare notes. We could certainly learn more this way. I feel things can be changed from the inside rather than out. We could get a feel for the judges and the judges could get a feel for us and our breed. You have taken up a lot of time from folks who I feel genually want to help you in your goal. And then when all is said and done in childlike fashion you exclaim you NEVER intend to show anyway and enjoy the challenge of breeding in your backyard. With your stern reluctance to listen to anyone in the know I feel you'll always have that very challenge you seek.

 

[tls_ranch]

Oops double post.

 

[tls_ranch]

Best I can do at translating German.





Sharp has nothing to do with the width of the lacing. Sharp means a well defined line. Do you have a current APA Standard? If so, read the first 40 pages. That is where you learn to understand the terms. The APA Standard has much more descriptive info than any other countries Standard that I have seen and I have most of them. Sometimes Standards are purposely vague to allow some wiggle room. Please stop taking what I say out of context. As I have posted on here many times. The APA does not always go with the country of origin....we like to when it is feasible. In the case of the Barnies the people who brought us the Standard chose to go with the another Standard. They were very well versed in chickens......maybe not as well versed as you, but never the less knowledegable.

Walt

Walt, I don't think I quoted you out of context regarding the Country of origin. It should be part of this discussion. Regardless, I have already agreed to disagree as clearly as I can. Royce wants to breed toward the lacing in the picture. I want to follow a different standard. Go back to picking on the Imported English Orpingtons and German New Hampshires and French Marans. They are way more popular than Dutch Barnevelders. It is a little bit ironic that Today is the 4 th, and I am getting picked on about freedom. I will still keep posting and learning new things.

Trisha

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Wow!!! I have not visited this site for quite some time. Today I'm in a hurry, but I'll try a response to this next week. The picture of this male with the hen lacing is certainly something I would NEVER use in the breeding pen. The impact on the females would be very negative (according to the many, many years of collective experience in the Netherlands, which certainly surpasses ours by far). Today's Barnies in the UK are nothing to brag about. The Germans have decided to recreate the breed, which they have several others (e.g., Langshans, Wyandottes, et al.). Not to listen to the "advice" and suggestions from the experts in the country of origin is, in my opinion, a bit short-sighted. By adopting a bird from another country into the SOP has always entailed issues (Leghorns would be a prime example). There's a lot more to it than that, but that's another matter. I'll submit another missive next week, and please not that this is written with no ill intent or dismissive attitude to others. Meanwhile, happy Constitution Day!

 

[Helen in the Desert]

Well, this has been a lively and informative discussion and I have been well educated by it. I would hope that no one leaves this group as a result. All of you, breeding to US SOP or to Dutch/other standards are a valuable resource for those of us who are learning and new to the breed. Differing opinions make for a wider and more educated view.

I was pleased to see Walt give his views - in some other critter based show circles it is often hard to get the attention of anyone in the upper levels unless you are politically connected and that makes me quite happy that I have chosen poultry as my hobby. That Walt is accessible is a credit to the APA.

 

[fowlman01]

Wow!!! I have not visited this site for quite some time. Today I'm in a hurry, but I'll try a response to this next week. The picture of this male with the hen lacing is certainly something I would NEVER use in the breeding pen. The impact on the females would be very negative (according to the many, many years of collective experience in the Netherlands, which certainly surpasses ours by far). Today's Barnies in the UK are nothing to brag about. The Germans have decided to recreate the breed, which they have several others (e.g., Langshans, Wyandottes, et al.). Not to listen to the "advice" and suggestions from the experts in the country of origin is, in my opinion, a bit short-sighted. By adopting a bird from another country into the SOP has always entailed issues (Leghorns would be a prime example). There's a lot more to it than that, but that's another matter. I'll submit another missive next week, and please not that this is written with no ill intent or dismissive attitude to others. Meanwhile, happy Constitution Day!

Glad you came back. Sam Brush tells me you were at Alma when the qualifying meet was going on. I am curious about why you didn't do something about that then.

Walt

 

[tls_ranch]

Trisha what is the whole point of your argument if you never intend to show ? It's been page after page of of why you need the standard changed and people have taken the time to explain the order in which this could be achieved. The SOP is a guideline there is no perfect bird if we could get a handful of folks that would show we could all compare notes. We could certainly learn more this way. I feel things can be changed from the inside rather than out. We could get a feel for the judges and the judges could get a feel for us and our breed. You have taken up a lot of time from folks who I feel genually want to help you in your goal. And then when all is said and done in childlike fashion you exclaim you NEVER intend to show anyway and enjoy the challenge of breeding in your backyard. With your stern reluctance to listen to anyone in the know I feel you'll always have that very challenge you seek. 

I would like to show..I said that, but it is not easy for me at this time due to family. But over and over there have been statements that I want to change the standard to fit my birds. Well, I will gladly remove myself from the equation if it meant improving the breed in the long run. I did not come up with the argument for solid or even heavily laced breasts. I did re start the discussion.

Trisha

 

[fowlman01]

Walt, I don't think I quoted you out of context regarding the Country of origin. It should be part of this discussion. Regardless, I have already agreed to disagree as clearly as I can. Royce wants to breed toward the lacing in the picture. I want to follow a different standard. Go back to picking on the Imported English Orpingtons and German New Hampshires and French Marans. They are way more popular than Dutch Barnevelders. It is a little bit ironic that Today is the 4 th, and I am getting picked on about freedom. I will still keep posting and learning new things.

Trisha

Just to clarify. I raise German New Hamps, I have no problem with them. I have no quarrel with the British Standard as it relates to Orps in that country. The two Standards are almost the same. They allow a bit more fluff and their heads are smaller. I was part of the Marans qualifying.....and they were a mess.....but we helped them get accepted.... it took a few tries though.
The Marans were a mess because there were inflexible people who did their own thing until the breed was driven into the ground. Very much like I see here. The chest color is the very least of the problems I see with the Barnies. This was also pointed out by Chris who you loved until he disagreed with you. As Chris pointed out.....there is a lot more color issues in the Barnie than the chest....the chest is only the indicator of those color problems.

In poultry we will always have differing opinions. The current APA Standard Committee is not inflexible. Now that Bjorn is back, he may have some compelling reason to make changes to the Standard, but since he was involved in the original qualifying, I have no idea what they may be. When I think something is wrong, I would do something about it at the time it is happening.

I don't think people are restricting your freedom.......it's more about your off the wall statements and your total disrespect to me and the APA. You will never be successful in breeding chickens if you continue to think you know it all. The reality is that you don't even know how to use genetic formula's and you don't know the genetic makeup of your own birds. That was evident in Chris's responses to your formula's. I'm not here to chastise anyone, but I let you get away with more smart alec responses than I normally would tolerate. That's over with now, so if you want to be flippant, knock yourself out....but you won't like my responses.

It is too bad, as I am here in northern California too and could maybe help you.....but since you know much more than me, I will let you help yourself. If I can successfully raise Dark Cornish, I don't think Barnies would be a big thing for me. Most folks believe that Cornish are the hardest breed of all to maintain.


One more piece of advice....promote your breed in a positive way if you really care for it. Knocking the APA and it's Standards will not help your cause.

Walt