Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[poultch]

They look nice, but I would like them darker - in double white laced (mahogany) red as seen in some Cornish strains

good observation Redcap.
I remember reading what Henk wrote somewhere @ thecoop, with reference of hom I/I will subtlety turn ground colour a yolky colour, I agree with him on that on the few examples that I had, yet I/I+ individuals where/are much stronger mahogany, hwoever i have found (not huge numbers to be statistically relevant) but anecdotally these individuals show more black ticking.... could well be a situation of ****** if you do, ****** if you dont

 

[Redcap]

Quote:
No thanks ;-) They aren't double laced. And I wan't breed for dark eggs.

I know, that red enhancers are needed ... therefore I rather work with Cornish than with Wyandottes or something else. These birds have a better color, even if the lacing is still poor.
http://www.rarebreedauctions.com/auction_details.php?auction_id=114725

 

[Avlana]

No thanks ;-)  They aren't double laced. And I wan't breed for dark eggs.

Mmkay. You enjoy those barnyard mixes.

For the breeders who are working to preserve Barnevelders, keep up the good work!

 

[Redcap]

I'd call them improved. They will be pure! After ten generations ... like the newly accepted silver double laced Barnies in Large and Bantam.
But my goal is to recreate the dark egg ... The show breeder in Germany and the Netherlands have destroyed the egg color in Barnevelder and Welsummers.

 

[Piet]

I'd call them improved. They will be pure! After ten generations ... like the newly accepted silver double laced Barnies in Large and Bantam.
But my goal is to recreate the dark egg ... The show breeder in Germany and the Netherlands have destroyed the egg color in Barnevelder and Welsummers.

how do you know? from pictures online or what you have heard? I agree that in Germany they lost those traits, but the Dutch have kept and stuck to it much better. They were both developed there and have enormous support from a huge poultry fancy that are very proud of their heritage birds.
I am sorry, but seriously take offense to that statement you made about us destroying our own birds.
My Barnevelders lay a nice dark egg, like coffee double double. The Barnevelder got famous back in 1923 because it was beating other breeds in PRODUCTION of large brown eggs. The overall egg weight per annum counts, not the darkness of it. The breeders back in the day found out he hard way that selecting for the darkest eggs, quickly reduced production.
Piet

 

[DiamondDust]

Not to take away from the more serious conversation going on in this thread but...


I'm taking 4 Barnevelders to their (and my) first show in two weeks! I just sent in the entry form so I'm committed now! I'm taking a cockerel and three pullets, all from Trish's eggs I hatched out last year.

Now I have just enough time to get really nervous!

DD

 

[Redcap]

I have two pretty eyes in my head. Furthermore I know some show judges, and poultry photographers, who briefed me in such things.
I've got Welsumer as teenager from one of the best breeder in Germany, but their eggs had this color


compare with this
http://www.welsumer.com/index_kunstbrut.php
My Barnies deliver the same poor color


and now compare with my scottish strain ... eggs are from July 2013 after 9 months laying period.



That's the reason why this dutch breeder made imports aswell
http://www.nut-welsumer.nl/Het Welsumer Ei DE.htm
Do You know, the reason why the english breeder has still this dark eggs?
They are not to shy to make crossings with Marans. That's a No go for mainland breeder, but consequently the dead for their breeds regarding "egg performance".
New blood is necessary today as it was usual untill to the 1940's. Then the psycho hype of pure breeding began ... or what was still worse, if new blood was introduced, they uses light egg layers, like Wyandottes in the Barnies.



Can You show eggs of Your double double coffee eggs? As far I know from historical reports, they should look like my scottish Welsumer eggs or darker.

My Barnevelders lay a nice dark egg, like coffee double double. The Barnevelder got famous back in 1923 because it was beating other breeds in PRODUCTION of large brown eggs. The overall egg weight per annum counts, not the darkness of it. The breeders back in the day found out he hard way that selecting for the darkest eggs, quickly reduced production.
Piet

 

[DiamondDust]

Wow, you do have poor color in your Barnevelder eggs, Redcap, if that's what they look like!

Mine are much darker than that but are still pullets so I can't crow over the color just yet.

I'd love to see what they are "supposed" to look like because my understanding is that they are not as dark as a Marans or as red-brown as a Welsumer but more glossy and...I've heard it described as copper colored, though I'm not sure I'd call mine copper colored exactly.

Piet...how would you describe the color they should be? How about you Redcap? What color should they be?

btw, I'm not trying to pick a fight here...I really think this is an interesting discussion...

DD

 

[Piet]

Nice to see you here Redcap!
I am, 6 generations in, and starting to get some consistency. but they are not jubilee (as in Orpingtons) rather the same patternation as the Jubilee Indian Game, or the non standard (in Holland) colour '~~Geelwitdubbelgezoomd' http://www.kippenencyclopedie.nl/php/index.php?title=Geelwitdubbelgezoomd
is what I suspect you meant especially after reading your link below:

I agree with the confusion that happens when naming is not consistent, (earlier posts give evidence to this) this is why the New Zealand Standards committee agreed to refer to this pattern as 'Chamois' - the pattern in other breeds caused by the effect of dominant white when on a gold base of those breeds ground pattern - transverse pencilled as in Campines, single laced as in Polish and double laced as in Barnevelder

Geelwitdubbelgezoomd is not what I thought Redcap meant. You see all these jubilee orpingtons now and that color is what I had in mind. The geelwitdubbelgezoomd has been around forever yes.
Piet

 

[Redcap]

Compare for Yourself. The most birds lay the left shade/grade of the eggs on page 12 of 15 in NL and Germany.
http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/13E01A03.pdf

Yes, I want to keep the deep mahogany red, as seen in some Jubilee Cornish.