Basic Coop design and making it sustainable

[jakole]

Good day everyone - first time poster - first time chicken owner (few weeks) - I tried to read thru as much as I could but there are 1000s of different articles and I felt it was best to create my own post. So - we moved into a property that already has a chicken coop (goat barn inside as well) and we want to make sure they stay safe inside, which we do have a lot of space indoors for nesting, but we want to also have "free range" (50x50) area connected with a 5ft wired 2x1in fencing that goes around entire square shown. As we are coming into it we are in a bind financially and do not have the means to purchase enough materials to enclose it as well. I know that many people just let their chicks run around the property during the day and put them away at night.
In saying that we do not want them to wander to far, with the road and others it would be too chaotic to keep track where we live. So - a 50x50 run that connects directly back into the coop is the plan. We are in the middle of MI farmland as you can kind of tell, and I do not think we would have any real animal threat given its isolation of not too many trees or rodents running around. Do you think we would be good with letting the chicks run around the outdoor space with just the border 5ft fencing while they are out pecking? Then, when they need to come in they just go thru the hatch and it gets closed very tight so if anything did happen to crawl into the run they can't do any damage besides look longingly at them from the 1 window.

That is a lot of text, sorry. My next question is probably on everyone's mind when they do this -- is this really a better long term plan vs spending a few hundred yearly on eggs and chicken? So far, the price for food - electric - care - time - materials - medicine if needed, well I am a numbers guy and I don't see how this balances out to where it becomes a fair trade and not a money pit. My understanding is 1/4lb food per chicken per day is sort of the average, my wife wants to get 20 meat and 20 laying chickens. I am not looking to get rich selling eggs or new chickens, but what kind of plans do the good people in the chicken forum do that either makes it far greater investment than most ventures, or at least breaking even and having fresh chicken and eggs available all the time? We are both new to this and it has become a large disagreement over 10$/month for eggs and maying 40$-50 a month for meat. Not to overdue the question, but feed alone is going to be 100's for this amount of bird food - not including the time, etc. If the apocalypse happens we have a few birds to take care or get eggs, but for some reason I am not getting the process. Thank you again for your time ---- Jake

 

[littlecoopnextdoor]

for me the pay off is in the compost they create. if you grow a garden, you'll save on not having to purchase compost most definitely. mine are pets, so I am not worried about them paying for themselves, but it seems a lot of folks here have success with the egg sales paying for the chicken feed. $6 for a dozen small flock eggs is a good deal

as for your fenced outdoor area, if you can't spend to buy more fence, you could make the fenced area slightly smaller and use the leftover fencing to on top to make a secure run. Basically making it fenced in not only on the sides but the top, to avoid aerial and climbing predators. You want to aim for 10sf per bird of outdoor area, 4sf of coop area and 1 foot of roost per bird. hope that helps!

 

[Krugerrand]

Welcome!

You really don't have to worry about predators until they find your chickens. Then, you have to worry a lot. The problem is that it can be too late at that point. Hard to believe that fox, coyote and raccoon won't stumble upon them at some point. Mice/rats could be around at some point, too.

For a large number of chickens, you're best bet is probably electric fence. That won't take care of aerial predators. In all likelihood, you'll probably need to accept some losses from hawks, etc. But, if your roosters do a good job of alerting, good hiding spots for the hens and maybe a LGD if you're up for that, you can hopefully control those losses some.

As we are coming into it we are in a bind financially and do not have the means to purchase enough materials to enclose it as well.

You may be best to build flexible and ramp up as you go.

 

[arizona_chicken_noob]

A couple of thoughts about money, predators, and making do on less.

1. Are you sure you want to start out with 40 chickens? Everything is more expensive and you will be more sad if tragedy strikes.

2. I don't see any places that the chickens could really hide in the photo, if they got scared. My chickens do NOT put it together to run back into the coop for safety. If you just have grass and crop land around, that might not be ideal.

3. I have found it quite valuable to have adequate protected bird space for those times that I can't be around or need to keep them penned during the day. It's also another thing that keeps me from succombing to chicken math.... I don't want to build more run area right now

If other people are doing it in your location (free ranging their birds) without incident, and you are ready to possibly lose birds, I might be inclined to try it on a very small scale. Emphasis on the "it's working for others nearby" part.

The chicken manure for my plants and the sheer enjoyment of those birds is definitely worth the bag of feed I buy every month. You have to be really specific on what you compare the price to as well. Factory farmed eggs and meat will likely be cheaper, but that's not apples to apples to what you would get for your efforts. I think you should compare price to the fancier / free range eggs.

 

[rosemarythyme]

I would suggest starting smaller at first for multiple reasons: 1) decide if this is really right for you 2) smaller start up cost with a smaller run (and then expand over time) and 3) for laying flocks you will really benefit in growing the flock slowly over time as hens are unlikely to lay year round past 16 months or so.

Be aware that the 5' tall 2x1 fencing you're planning on using is by itself not predator proof to aerial and to many ground predators as well. If fencing cost is the big concern you might want to consider simply free ranging - you will have some losses but you will probably have some losses with a run constructed with just that fencing material as well.

More photos of your coop would help as well. You're likely going to put aside some funds to do some work on it, for example I only see 2 small windows - is there ventilation not shown that stays open 24/7, and if so, how much in sq ft? And how large is the coop overall in floor space?

is this really a better long term plan vs spending a few hundred yearly on eggs and chicken? So far, the price for food - electric - care - time - materials - medicine if needed, well I am a numbers guy and I don't see how this balances out to where it becomes a fair trade and not a money pit.

If you utilize the chickens to help generate compost for the garden, or see homegrown food as an improvement on what you currently eat/buy, or value them as companions/pets or just something that helps you relax in the evening, there's some additional value there, but if you're strictly talking dollars, the reality is this is a money pit. You will likely save more money in the long run if you buy eggs and meat from the store, as you simply cannot compete with the efficiency of a factory farm. Not saying it's not something worth trying, but it's not an uncommon joke around here to claim that the first egg you finally get is worth a few thousand dollars.

 

[aart]

Raising your own eggs and meat is not to save money(because it's highly unlikely, especially if you figure in your time/labor) but know more about 'where your food comes from'.

I kept very close track of my costs for the first 8 years and covered my feed and bedding costs with egg sales, but not much else.

 

[3KillerBs]

Welcome to BYC.

You've gotten good advice so far.

I would suggest starting smaller at first for multiple reasons: 1) decide if this is really right for you 2) smaller start up cost with a smaller run (and then expand over time) and 3) for laying flocks you will really benefit in growing the flock slowly over time as hens are unlikely to lay year round past 16 months or so.

I have to agree with this advice.

Start with half a dozen laying hens, females only, to get the hang of chicken-keeping and figure out what works for you in your situation. Then, next year, you can decide if you are content as you are, want to expand, or want to sell/eat the hens and get your chicken and eggs at the grocery store.

A simple wire fence will be *mostly* proof against stray dogs, coyotes, and certain other ground predators. It won't be proof against either aerial or climbing predators but many of us figure that occasionally losing a bird to a hawk is an acceptable tradeoff for the ability to give the birds a larger space to live in. It also won't protect the birds from night climbers like raccoon and mustelids, so the coop will have to be secure at night.

BTW -- you may not *see* them, but you have more predators than you think you have. Even urban areas have them and farmland generally has them in abundance, especially over there beyond the field in that bit of woodland.

As for the money, egg sales (and the sales of chicks, started pullets, etc.), can help offset costs, but generally keeping your own chickens is about the other benefits -- the compost, the pest-control provided by free-ranging flocks, the intangibles of raising your own food, and the joy of having them.

 

[RoyalChick]

I agree with the advice already given including starting a bit smaller and learning as you go.
For the run I would put some junk around - I have old benches and garden chairs and others have pallets propped up. This is a way to give them places to hide from aerial predators and is free if you or neighbors have anything kicking around. In the past I picked up chairs at Habitat for Humanity for $1 - they are not pretty but they make good hiding spots and perches etc.
Probably not the meat birds - but most of mine would hop on a 5' fence without thinking twice about it and foxes can climb well over 6'. Raccoons even higher of course but if the chickens are locked in safely at night that isn't such a concern. So unless you are wedded to a 5' real fence I would skip that entirely and go with an electric fence. I actually use poultry netting but you can also set up a two strand wire or tape fence which is likely less expensive.

 

[jakole]

I wanted to thank EVERYONE on your responses - I am not good with all these forums and apparently did not get notified that responses were made -- so sorry for that. This is valuable information and really helps guide us.

 

[Bella the Chicken Lover]

Hello,

If I were you, I would probably start out with 1/2 of the amount you plan to have in the end, especially if it is your first time. I encourage the idea of the fence though, because healthy chickens equal happy chickens, and it will be very good for them, and healthy for you too! We got 20 Rhode Island red, and speckled... something chickens, ate all the roosters except 2, and kept the hens(now we have 10) I would also say you should keep 1 rooster per 7 hens, because they'll start fighting with other roosters. And if you are a little on the edge about the food prices, the chickens will also be able to pick bugs up in the open fenced in area too! And something I strongly suggest, is to feed them food scraps. They will eat banana peels, apple cores, leftovers of turkey and chicken(even the heart and organs), beef, bread, pretty much everything except coffee grinds, orange peels, lemon, and chocolate. They'll eat so much, even peanut butter! We only have to feed our chickens grain and whole corn 4 days a week because we feed them scraps!

Good luck with your chickens!

Bella the Chicken Lover