BBS breeding and dilute / white splash

[2ndTink]

Sounds like they're most likely Australorps, then! Lovely birds! The things like size and egg color likely are just line differences. Different hatcheries selecting their breeding birds differently, in other words.




Ooh, thanks for the tip! I'll have to try this with some of my birds!




Best of luck with your test crosses! I'm definitely interested in the outcomes. I have no idea whether that chick is a cockerel or pullet, but what a gorgeous shade of blue!! I'd so love to see more of that in my Cochins!

I kinda thought the egg color may depend on what the hatchery used in their lines, from what use read, it's not like the breeds are particularly purebred, but a BA could have other layer breeds mixed in to improve production as long as they end up looking kinda like a BA. I could be wrong on that though, but I made sense to me as to why typically hatchery bred chickens lay sooner and more frequently than purebred birds being bred to the SOP by breeders. Again. I could be completely wrong

I'd love to see the results of your flash photo test!

I have a hatch-a-long thread with my out of control number of eggies, I have the mixes you've been helping me with in there, the EE crosses and the chocolate paint with no chocolate spots incubating. We're on day 3 today! I'm expecting low fertility rates but we'll see next Saturday!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-incubator-hatch-a-long.1609702/post-27445450

 

[NatJ]

I kinda thought the egg color may depend on what the hatchery used in their lines, from what use read, it's not like the breeds are particularly purebred, but a BA could have other layer breeds mixed in to improve production as long as they end up looking kinda like a BA. I could be wrong on that though, but I made sense to me as to why typically hatchery bred chickens lay sooner and more frequently than purebred birds being bred to the SOP by breeders. Again. I could be completely wrong

You might be right, at least partly.

But even without crossing in any other breeds, the hatchery chickens would tend to lay sooner and more frequently than breeder birds, just because of how the hatchery works.

A breeder might raise a certain number of chicks until they are adults, then pick the best few for breeding (judging them against the Standard of Perfection.) Since the SOP is mostly about how a chicken looks, that can lead to some breeders ignoring egg production.

A hatchery is more likely to raise a certain number of chicks, remove the worst few, and breed from all the rest. Among the ones in the hatchery flock, the ones that lay the most eggs this year will have the most chicks in next year's breeding flock. As that gets repeated year after year, the flock average will move in the direction of higher production. This will tend to happen even if the hatchery is not deliberately selecting for better egg production, but will go faster if they are deliberately working toward better laying abilities.

Breeders and hatcheries are not all alike: some breeders will be selecting for egg production as well, and some hatcheries will be selecting fairly well for the right physical traits. But in general, almost all hatcheries will end up with some selection toward higher egg production (even if they are not trying to), while not all breeders will.

As regards the egg color, one hen or especially one rooster can have a big effect on the egg color in the next few generations, because of the genes they pass on to their chicks, and anyone who is ignoring egg color will just let this happen (this goes for breeders and for hatcheries.) Once the egg color of the whole flock has gotten much lighter or darker, it will probably not come back unless someone is deliberately selecting to cause a change.

 

[2ndTink]

You might be right, at least partly.

But even without crossing in any other breeds, the hatchery chickens would tend to lay sooner and more frequently than breeder birds, just because of how the hatchery works.

A breeder might raise a certain number of chicks until they are adults, then pick the best few for breeding (judging them against the Standard of Perfection.) Since the SOP is mostly about how a chicken looks, that can lead to some breeders ignoring egg production.

A hatchery is more likely to raise a certain number of chicks, remove the worst few, and breed from all the rest. Among the ones in the hatchery flock, the ones that lay the most eggs this year will have the most chicks in next year's breeding flock. As that gets repeated year after year, the flock average will move in the direction of higher production. This will tend to happen even if the hatchery is not deliberately selecting for better egg production, but will go faster if they are deliberately working toward better laying abilities.

Breeders and hatcheries are not all alike: some breeders will be selecting for egg production as well, and some hatcheries will be selecting fairly well for the right physical traits. But in general, almost all hatcheries will end up with some selection toward higher egg production (even if they are not trying to), while not all breeders will.

As regards the egg color, one hen or especially one rooster can have a big effect on the egg color in the next few generations, because of the genes they pass on to their chicks, and anyone who is ignoring egg color will just let this happen (this goes for breeders and for hatcheries.) Once the egg color of the whole flock has gotten much lighter or darker, it will probably not come back unless someone is deliberately selecting to cause a change.

Oooooh! That totally makes sense, thanks for helping turn on the light bulb!

My chocolate silkie lays a more chocolate colored egg, not a brown egg by any means, but like a really weak chocolate milk, I have thought it's cool because, well hey, she's chocolate

 

[2ndTink]

You just added more criteria to consider when breeding the silkies, so I should track how young they begin to lay, how consistently, color, and broodiness, as I could at least move the needle on these a bit if I also consider them when choosing the "best looking" birds.

I guess egg shape could be considered too, if there are any really undesirable shaped egg producers, long and skinny or too round? As long as it I'd a shape produced consistently and not a 1 off. I know I have an EE that likes to lay long skinny eggs.

Oof, my chickens are ging to label me as judgemental and unaccepting!

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

I kinda thought the egg color may depend on what the hatchery used in their lines, from what use read, it's not like the breeds are particularly purebred, but a BA could have other layer breeds mixed in to improve production as long as they end up looking kinda like a BA. I could be wrong on that though, but I made sense to me as to why typically hatchery bred chickens lay sooner and more frequently than purebred birds being bred to the SOP by breeders. Again. I could be completely wrong

I know that historically outcrosses have been done in some hatchery lines to improve egg laying, disregarding other features of a given breed like type. That's one reason why a lot of hatchery lines have such radically different type than the standard calls for for the breed. Outcrossing to White Leghorn was quite popular in the past from my understanding, them being one of the most productive egg laying breeds out there, which could explain different lines laying lighter eggs. I don't know how common that is nowadays, however. NatJ covered other aspects of why differences can occur between lines well.

I'd love to see the results of your flash photo test!

Oof, I did take a few just to play around with it, but bear in mind it has been horribly wet here so everything is so, so muddy. I'm doing my best to keep everyone clean and comfortable, but it's just been such a mess. I feel like the mud looks even worse with the camera flash, too.

I took this as sort of a baseline picture to gauge the others against. The two standing on the right side of this picture are Black. The one on the makeshift perch in the background and the three grouped on the left I'm pretty sure are all Blue:

This guy I keep going back and forth on. I think he's a super dark Blue, though, going on his wing feathers being so muted?

Blue in the background, Black front left (I think?), Blue front right:

I didn't take too many, though. I want to try again once the weather dries up a bit. I have a few more birds I'd like to try it on and see if they're the colors I think they are.

I have a hatch-a-long thread with my out of control number of eggies, I have the mixes you've been helping me with in there, the EE crosses and the chocolate paint with no chocolate spots incubating. We're on day 3 today! I'm expecting low fertility rates but we'll see next Saturday!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-incubator-hatch-a-long.1609702/post-27445450

I'll go check it out!

Oof, my chickens are ging to label me as judgemental and unaccepting!

Haha, I definitely feel this! I always feel so bad picking which ones are pretty enough to move forward for breeding. I just love them all so much!

 

[LoveOfFeathers]

My phoenix have hackle leakage, which is what makes me think they have this. Every single recessive bird has had multiple brown and black feathers at one time, often consecutively, where other recessive whites are not supposed to be able to show any leakage from my understanding

Might be another gene, I have a micro project that has mottled and recessive whites in them. Recessive white bird from non white parents bred to Silver duckwing rooster made all sorts of colors. Isabell, blue, wheaten quail, mottled, and apparently a white silver duckwing? Bred my white duckwing rooster to his sister, a wheaten colored quail and got mottled wheaten quail, silver necked golden quail, solid white, almost fully white diluted porcelain colored pullet with light columbian flecks in neck and light lavender tail, solid white birds and a white leaking red. One cockerel is solid white with random red or blue feathers. So yes I’m thinking that recessive white and mottled when combined produce a mess of color leakage. I can take pictures tomorrow.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Might be another gene

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0086361

 

[2ndTink]

I know that historically outcrosses have been done in some hatchery lines to improve egg laying, disregarding other features of a given breed like type. That's one reason why a lot of hatchery lines have such radically different type than the standard calls for for the breed. Outcrossing to White Leghorn was quite popular in the past from my understanding, them being one of the most productive egg laying breeds out there, which could explain different lines laying lighter eggs. I don't know how common that is nowadays, however. NatJ covered other aspects of why differences can occur between lines well.




Oof, I did take a few just to play around with it, but bear in mind it has been horribly wet here so everything is so, so muddy. I'm doing my best to keep everyone clean and comfortable, but it's just been such a mess. I feel like the mud looks even worse with the camera flash, too.

I took this as sort of a baseline picture to gauge the others against. The two standing on the right side of this picture are Black. The one on the makeshift perch in the background and the three grouped on the left I'm pretty sure are all Blue:

View attachment 3737687


This guy I keep going back and forth on. I think he's a super dark Blue, though, going on his wing feathers being so muted?

View attachment 3737690


Blue in the background, Black front left (I think?), Blue front right:

View attachment 3737693

I didn't take too many, though. I want to try again once the weather dries up a bit. I have a few more birds I'd like to try it on and see if they're the colors I think they are.




I'll go check it out!




Haha, I definitely feel this! I always feel so bad picking which ones are pretty enough to move forward for breeding. I just love them all so much!

Did you get more photos to determine the blues vs the blacks? Not sure how I missed responding to your post a month ago

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Almost forgot to reply to you here, whoops! No, I haven't yet. Mostly because I kinda forgot But also because the weather's been all over the place.

 

[2ndTink]

Almost forgot to reply to you here, whoops! No, I haven't yet. Mostly because I kinda forgot But also because the weather's been all over the place.

It has been here as well! We had snow last Saturday, huge flakes for about an hour, no weather stations had predicted it. Then it's been raining off and on and windy. Not good outdoor weather. Yesterday evening was nice though and we let two groups of chickens out. They usually go different directions, but of course last night they wanted to meet in the middle and all the pullets wanted to fight Chonkers my little satin rooster. No major fights, but little spats. I had to keep trying to redirect them back to their usual hang out areas.

I'll be setting Chonkers and Fizz Bang eggs tomorrow morning! More "test" hatching to see what colors we get, I'd like to keep a few pullets from them and I'll sell the rest. I'm still waiting on a Chonkers chocolate both chicks from the last hatch are black and white paints.