being diplomatic to neighbor with dog killing my free-range chickens

[Mattemma]

Don't give the letter.Just creating a neighbor war with it.If the neighbor knows the killings are occuring then he does not care.A letter will just annoy him.Any dog owner than lets his dog roam knows that their dog can kill or get killed.SSS the dog and move on.

 

[dainerra]

The thing with LGD killing other flocks isn't a case of genetics. It's a case of "pack". This is why a big part of LGD training includes proper intoduction to the livestock they are supposed to protect. Outside animals aren't part of the pack, so can be considered fair game to some dogs. The same goes for my dogs. My chickens and rabbits are safe. If the neighbors birds were to wander over here, it would be a massacre. Same for wild bunnies - they are fair game to the dogs. It goes for all dogs. Most of the cases I've heard are actually herding dogs, to be fair. Collies, GSDs, etc. Then of course all the family dogs (labs for example) that are fine at home but will wander down the street and kill every bird in the neighbor's flock. If I had. Adollar for every one of those, i'd be rich!

If you DO send this letter, be sure to keep a copy and send it certified so that you have proof. Otherwise, if things go south in the neighbor relations, he can't just say he didn't know. This is why I don't deal with these problems. I simply call the sheriff and have a deputy write up a report. The deputy talks to the neighbor, warns them of the law concerning livestock, and givess them an amount for the damages. I also have an official papertrail if I have to shoot the dog.

Even better, if I catch a different dog in the act, I have a papertail of all past problems. It also shows a pattern of certain neighbors who have one dog after another who is left to roam and cause problems. Here, you are allowed to shoot a dog if it is "reasonable" to believe it will kill or harm livestock. With a list of police reports detailing past losses, I am covered. I can prove that, if not this dog, there is a pattern and that I am reasonable in my belief that this dog running around my coop will be a problem, even if he hasn't found a way in yet.

 

[OldGuy43]

Quote:
I'm sorry CheekyMare, but I have to disagree as to a predator fence being a prerequisite in this case. Predators are one thing, a neighbor's free ranging pet is another. If your flock is on your property you should not have to defend your animals from his. He's the one who needs a fence.

Many years ago a friend told me, "You have a unique talent for turning the crank just to see how far it will go." Let's turn this crank to its extreme and see where it takes us. You have a rooster whose crowing your neighbor finds objectionable. He comes onto your property and shoots your bird. His defense is that you didn't have sufficient fencing to keep him out. A valid defense for his action? I think not!

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
I'm sorry CheekyMare, but I have to disagree as to a predator fence being a prerequisite in this case. Predators are one thing, a neighbor's free ranging pet is another. If your flock is on your property you should not have to defend your animals from his. He's the one who needs a fence.

Many years ago a friend told me, "You have a unique talent for turning the crank just to see how far it will go." Let's turn this crank to its extreme and see where it takes us. You have a rooster whose crowing your neighbor finds objectionable. He comes onto your property and shoots your bird. His defense is that you didn't have sufficient fencing to keep him out. A valid defense for his action? I think not!



I don't see the connection...the neighbor can reason between good and bad actions and a dog cannot. The dog is acting on instinct and a fence just may deter that instinctive drive. There is no way I'd try to free range without a fence of some kind separating me from my neighbors with big dogs.

Dogs cannot even mount a defense, for that matter. They need good fences to keep them in and good fences to keep them out, make no mistake. Proper fencing can deter many large predators if constructed properly....particularly if it also holds a fierce guard animal inside that fence.

Free ranging, though your right, is also full of the risks inherent with free ranging. All one can do is mount a good fence, place guardian dogs/animals, give birds plenty of places in which they can escape danger/threat and then STILL accept the risk of preds. Getting angry over a neighbor dog who waltzes through your unprotected yard and nabs your unprotected birds is like getting angry because you always leave your windows down in your car and it finally rained and got your seats wet.

I've had a similar situation with a neighborhood dog and my caged rabbits in an enclosed and locked shed. The dog tore the boards off the bottom of the door, got up on feed cans, tore down the cages and killed 4 adult rabbits. The police would do nothing, the neighbor said, "Swat him with a newspaper and he'll not be back." I was out the cost of my adult meat rabbits and damages to the cages....approx. $120.

The second damage was tearing a hole in my garage door to get to my dog. I bought the dog a collar and tie out and took him back to the neighbor's house and tied him. The next day he was in my garden and biting off each every pepper plant I owned. The police said I had a right to shoot him. I hauled him out in the country and shot him. The neighbor never asked his whereabouts and I never mentioned the dog again. The neighbor and were still civil and the problem is resolved.

 

[r4eboxer]

Quote:
I'm sorry CheekyMare, but I have to disagree as to a predator fence being a prerequisite in this case. Predators are one thing, a neighbor's free ranging pet is another. If your flock is on your property you should not have to defend your animals from his. He's the one who needs a fence.

Many years ago a friend told me, "You have a unique talent for turning the crank just to see how far it will go." Let's turn this crank to its extreme and see where it takes us. You have a rooster whose crowing your neighbor finds objectionable. He comes onto your property and shoots your bird. His defense is that you didn't have sufficient fencing to keep him out. A valid defense for his action? I think not!

X2

 

[CheekyMare]

That's why you should just shoot the darn dog.

IME 'Good fences make good neighbours.' is an old saying for a valid reason.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
I think it is very much a function genetics, although at breed rather than individual level, and is inherent to how many of the herd associating livestock guarding dogs have been bred to operate. LGD's consider their herd to be their pack and other herds to be outsiders which in the typical wolf's brain (wild or domestic), is a threat or rival that should be destroyed when possible. The hunting dog breeds might be more flexible on this point in that they are largely ignoring pack politics when engaging other species. In the case of other species with hunting dogs, you are either prey or not. Hunting dogs are bred to be easily trainable to target one species of game and ignore others. A good hunting dog will observe this rule, even when hunting on unfamiliar territory. When hunting dogs do slip up they trash, going after non-target species. This system I am taking advantage of with a breed bred in US for game birds while in its ancestral Germany was bred for hunting a broader range of game and used to guard farmstead when not hunting. My dog is being trained not to observe chickens as potential prey / targets and hopefully will observe this rule on his territory as well as off. So far all is working well and alternative targets being promoted are any birds besides domestic poultry. He does chase Coopers hawks and mourning doves with wild abandon.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
I'm sorry CheekyMare, but I have to disagree as to a predator fence being a prerequisite in this case. Predators are one thing, a neighbor's free ranging pet is another. If your flock is on your property you should not have to defend your animals from his. He's the one who needs a fence.

Many years ago a friend told me, "You have a unique talent for turning the crank just to see how far it will go." Let's turn this crank to its extreme and see where it takes us. You have a rooster whose crowing your neighbor finds objectionable. He comes onto your property and shoots your bird. His defense is that you didn't have sufficient fencing to keep him out. A valid defense for his action? I think not!



I don't see the connection...the neighbor can reason between good and bad actions and a dog cannot. The dog is acting on instinct and a fence just may deter that instinctive drive. There is no way I'd try to free range without a fence of some kind separating me from my neighbors with big dogs.

Dogs cannot even mount a defense, for that matter. They need good fences to keep them in and good fences to keep them out, make no mistake. Proper fencing can deter many large predators if constructed properly....particularly if it also holds a fierce guard animal inside that fence.

Free ranging, though your right, is also full of the risks inherent with free ranging. All one can do is mount a good fence, place guardian dogs/animals, give birds plenty of places in which they can escape danger/threat and then STILL accept the risk of preds. Getting angry over a neighbor dog who waltzes through your unprotected yard and nabs your unprotected birds is like getting angry because you always leave your windows down in your car and it finally rained and got your seats wet.

I've had a similar situation with a neighborhood dog and my caged rabbits in an enclosed and locked shed. The dog tore the boards off the bottom of the door, got up on feed cans, tore down the cages and killed 4 adult rabbits. The police would do nothing, the neighbor said, "Swat him with a newspaper and he'll not be back." I was out the cost of my adult meat rabbits and damages to the cages....approx. $120.

The second damage was tearing a hole in my garage door to get to my dog. I bought the dog a collar and tie out and took him back to the neighbor's house and tied him. The next day he was in my garden and biting off each every pepper plant I owned. The police said I had a right to shoot him. I hauled him out in the country and shot him. The neighbor never asked his whereabouts and I never mentioned the dog again. The neighbor and were still civil and the problem is resolved.

OldGuy,

The laws of my state are in alignment with your position.

 

[Beekissed]

The laws of your state may be...but your birds are just as dead. I'd invest in adequate protection before I free ranged again.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
My preference is to have neighbor with livestock killing dog to carry cost burden of building fence. Free-ranging has not stopped since for short term neighbor has successfully contained dog. Another neighbor has doberman that visits and walks freely among free-ranging flock with no problems. That neighbor does not need to confine dog. Training dog not to molest birds is easy if a little effort is invested. Easy even if dog has killed before, assuming neighbors have dog under some kind of control.