Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[BarnGoddess01]

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Wouldn't the Marans Club be a better place to go to ask this question? Aren't they the ones actually breeding and promoting SOP Marans? Or am I misunderstanding the intent of the original question?

Does it really matter where I ask this ?, "where ever" there are marans owners and breeders wouldn't that be the place to ask this ?........, I have asked this ? on one of the Marans Clubs forum and got no answers...............

Big difference about asking on the Marans Club board v. here is that there they use real names so you can check them out - check references and follow up. Here, we all use an alias. Any of us can say anything we want with absolutely zero accountability.

 

[stoopid]

Sorry, Don, I always thought you were...
Weren't you the guy that gave me the banana trick? When you judged?
Oops, apologies. But you still know your stuff....

 

[OwensMom]

Ok so since we are on the subject of breeding, I have a newbee question. Why is it necessary to cull so heavily? Marans are not a new breed(or are they?) Why are the genetics not set to the point that people can get positive predictable results from the different lines? I just cannot understand why the genetics are so variable. thanks for the answers.

 

[DMRippy]

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[VillageChicken]

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Big can of worms...

I think this has been discussed before, and it mainly comes down to the fact that Marans have attractive eggs and complicated genetics.

Some folks breed just for dark eggs - their birds will eventually deviate more and more from SOP. They still sell their eggs to folks as true Marans.
Some folks breed for show - their birds may not retain the genetics for dark eggs. You don't have to show an egg with the hen, and how would you test a roo?

Hormones have a big role in how a bird colors out. A hen and roo with identical genes will color out very differently. In general, hens will darken up more easily.
Snowbird has mentioned that most breeders that have a variety of chicken where the hen and roo are at all different, if they want to breed to SOP, will have a separate breeding program for hens and for roos. I believe he called them parti-colored birds. Any self colored birds - black, white, buff etc. would not need this kind of separate breeding pen for hens or roos.

I believe very few Marans breeders are using this technique at this point. I know Geebs has been breeding for hens and roos separately.

So a flock of BC Marans in your backyard will rarely produce good hens and good roos consistently. Very dark egg color genetics are just now being studied, and are not well understood.
There are egg color inhibiting genes, feathered shank inhibiting genes, etc... things that hide the good genes that your birds have and don't allow them to express. Some of these genes are recessive and hide in your flock. Then one year, your best roo and best hen might start producing birds with clean shanks or just stubs for example. What do you do? Start over?

It is a complicated breed to get everything right. Carnation combs and comb sprigs are also complicated genetically, and hide in a flock until the right combination of two different genes is there. Then it presents. That is why even though the breed has been in the U.S. for years, there are still many issues being cleared out of flocks... and they will continue to persist in open flocks.

But the process, although challenging, is fun to be a part of. Here in Europe we have a lot of the same challenges, though I don't think we have sprigs here.

That's my 2 cents on this.



MATH - thanks for the pics - you got my wheels turning... at 5 am this morning! Great ideas.

 

[stoopid]

Great post, Roger. How's the rebuilding going? I hope the weather there holds out for you long enough to get everyone secure.

 

[geebs]

Wow Roger your area for CL is..... well I hear crickets.... Too bad I was looking for materials for you.... EMPTY!!! Where in Hungary are you??? I would love to Google it.

Okay so maybe this makes me a bit geeky but I checked out the city of budapest right downtown on the water... Wow what a gorgeous city... It is amazing!!!! I see that you are in a little town... but this big city is "off the chain"!!!! Wonder if they can have chickens in town?

 

[snowbird]

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Yes, I posted about the ripe Banana taming of the Marans. I have used the Banana to tame fowl for 50 or more years.

 

[math ace]

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Considering the standard has just been approved for the black copper marans, this is part of why the need to cull is so important.
Until earlier this year, everyone was able to do whatever they wanted to OR nothing at all without any accountablity.
Hence, it would be impossible to have the genetics set for predicatble results because things have been changing with each re-write of the proposed standard.
For instances, I remember when a 60 degree tail angle was acceptable. Now, we are shooting for the 45 degree tail angle.

However, now the standard demands certain characteristics that must exist and others that will be counted as faults or DQ's.
In the near future, from those who really care about the sop, we will start seeing more predictable results..... IMHO
There are some major DQ's that the faithfull are working out of the flocks by hard culling and selective breeding. Some of these
issues aren't even showing up until the 3rd and 4th generations of line breeding. I personally don't consider that strange at all.
Knowing that some genes are dominant and some are recessive, it makes sense that the recessive gene issues wouldn't cause a problem
until a few generations have been raised.

 

[math ace]

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You're welcome... Glad they were helpful!

Do you want me to touch base with some of our funky comb experts and send you some chickens with sprigs?
I REALLY do want you folks to feel like you AREN'T missing out

Personally, I can offer you some GREAT Thumbprint and twisted comb stock!

I know a couple of people who can hook you up with the carnation comb stock.

Just say the word, Friend, and I will make you COMB DREAMS come true!