Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[maryhysong]

I am a bit on the fence about keeping this cockerel or not. Input appreciated. hatched 1/27
Faults I see; his comb and wattles are a bit big, his shanks are feathered but it doesn't extend down the outside toe. He has some color on his chest but not as much as many of his younger brothers. I like the shade of red copper he has and it is pretty even. A lot of the other young cockerels have a yellower hackle with more black in it. So far his tail angle isn't bad; having an issue with squirrel tails on some. No white feathers





At the moment I'm comparing him to this cockerel, hatched last Nov from a completely different line of birds. He still has a big comb and wattles, but his chest is black and his legs and toes fully feathered, nice red copper color. This pic is from April I have noticed lately tho that his tail is coming up more and I"m afraid it may end up too high. No white feathers



I have several batches of younger cockerels that hatched in March and April growing out. So far no one of them is really catching my eye and quite a few will be culls due to pinched tails, squirrel tails, yellow hackle. So far these are the best two prospects I have for this year. Perhaps I should keep both and do some test hatches this fall.

The issue I've got with my pullets is not enough copper on them. Would using the first cockerel with that bit of color on his chest help with that?

 

[desertmarcy]

I am a bit on the fence about keeping this cockerel or not. Input appreciated. hatched 1/27
Faults I see; his comb and wattles are a bit big, his shanks are feathered but it doesn't extend down the outside toe. He has some color on his chest but not as much as many of his younger brothers. I like the shade of red copper he has and it is pretty even. A lot of the other young cockerels have a yellower hackle with more black in it. So far his tail angle isn't bad; having an issue with squirrel tails on some. No white feathers





At the moment I'm comparing him to this cockerel, hatched last Nov from a completely different line of birds. He still has a big comb and wattles, but his chest is black and his legs and toes fully feathered, nice red copper color. This pic is from April I have noticed lately tho that his tail is coming up more and I"m afraid it may end up too high. No white feathers



I have several batches of younger cockerels that hatched in March and April growing out. So far no one of them is really catching my eye and quite a few will be culls due to pinched tails, squirrel tails, yellow hackle. So far these are the best two prospects I have for this year. Perhaps I should keep both and do some test hatches this fall.

The issue I've got with my pullets is not enough copper on them. Would using the first cockerel with that bit of color on his chest help with that?

Hi Mary, the first cockerel: in my experience, they tend to get more breast color as they age. He may end up having too much. I have heard that using one with too much color will help the color on the hens, but I have yet to try it. Was his tail picked when younger, because he looks like he has no tail. That bothers me. Or is he just growing them back from a molt? On the sparse toe feathers, that can easily be compensated for if you have hens with heavy feathering, esp. if they have middle toe feathers. I had a lot of birds with middle toe feathers, and this year, with an outcross to birds with no middle toe feathers, and lighter shank/toe feathers in general, I am not seeing very many and the ones that have it hatched with only one, two at the most, middle toe feathers. That first cockerel also looks like he might have a bit of a roach back. Look closely at him for that, if he does, then get rid of him. It might just be the way he is standing in the photo.

The second cockerel, I don't like his wing angle as much as the first one, it looks a bit too low. Not horrible, though. The first cockerel looks like he is getting a better chest on him, the second one is flat, but he is young, so this may improve. Nice color on both of these males.

 

[maryhysong]

Hi Mary, the first cockerel: in my experience, they tend to get more breast color as they age. He may end up having too much. I have heard that using one with too much color will help the color on the hens, but I have yet to try it. Was his tail picked when younger, because he looks like he has no tail. That bothers me. Or is he just growing them back from a molt? On the sparse toe feathers, that can easily be compensated for if you have hens with heavy feathering, esp. if they have middle toe feathers. I had a lot of birds with middle toe feathers, and this year, with an outcross to birds with no middle toe feathers, and lighter shank/toe feathers in general, I am not seeing very many and the ones that have it hatched with only one, two at the most, middle toe feathers. That first cockerel also looks like he might have a bit of a roach back. Look closely at him for that, if he does, then get rid of him. It might just be the way he is standing in the photo.

The second cockerel, I don't like his wing angle as much as the first one, it looks a bit too low. Not horrible, though. The first cockerel looks like he is getting a better chest on him, the second one is flat, but he is young, so this may improve. Nice color on both of these males.

Thanks Marcy; So far I haven't have much trouble with middle toe feathers; got rid of the ones last year that did show up with some. That first cockerel is getting picked on a bit by a couple of bigger BO guys in there so yea, somebody pulled out his tail feathers. Trying to get some more coops done, so I can move birds around. Well perhaps I'll keep that first one around for a bit longer. I'll wait until the younger ones are a little bigger and see if there are any other promising ones before I get rid of him.

A roach back is where the back humps up, right? I will look at him some more; I don't think it does, I think he was just looking at the dog on the outside of the pen and standing funny

 

[desertmarcy]

Thanks Marcy; So far I haven't have much trouble with middle toe feathers; got rid of the ones last year that did show up with some. That first cockerel is getting picked on a bit by a couple of bigger BO guys in there so yea, somebody pulled out his tail feathers. Trying to get some more coops done, so I can move birds around. Well perhaps I'll keep that first one around for a bit longer. I'll wait until the younger ones are a little bigger and see if there are any other promising ones before I get rid of him.

A roach back is where the back humps up, right? I will look at him some more; I don't think it does, I think he was just looking at the dog on the outside of the pen and standing funny

Yes, that is what it is. It is a DQ.

 

[maryhysong]

Yes, that is what it is. It is a DQ.

Thanks Marcy! I will definitely take a closer look at him this evening!

 

[IrishAcreFarm]

Hello, at what age are you able to determine the quality of a bcm roo? I hatched out some a month ago and 3-4 are clearly looking like roos. May try to keep one, but hoping not to have to wait too long to determine which one. I am still very new to this breed so not really sure what to look for. I dont mind any negative opinions, that is how i will learn. This is one of my 4 week olds, clearly a roo.

 

[Chicken Tenders]

Hello All,
I have been busy hatching so didn't see this. We had this problem last year with a roo that we ultimately called "Thing" and moved along to some homesteaders. It has been our experience that if you can afford to, cull aggressively because if you are seeing issues now, they rarely work themselves out later. Roos just get bigger and some of there feather may look better, but structure really doesn't. However, having said this, since this is a difficult breed to find, it is a little difficult to get rid of the "golden egg" when there are no other choices. I guess, it depends on your odds of finding a replacement or getting something better. Sometimes it is worth it just keep what you have until you can find better and then cull. Our best experience was to contact breeders and arrange to meet them at semi- local poultry shows in the fall to purchase grown out adults. If you let them know early what your are looking for, they may be willing to raise out and cull so you will have a better choice to work with. Then you know what you're getting and its worth every penny to have a good start. Hope that helps!

 

[desertmarcy]

Hello, at what age are you able to determine the quality of a bcm roo? I hatched out some a month ago and 3-4 are clearly looking like roos. May try to keep one, but hoping not to have to wait too long to determine which one. I am still very new to this breed so not really sure what to look for. I dont mind any negative opinions, that is how i will learn. This is one of my 4 week olds, clearly a roo.

Unfortunately, if you want to breed to the SOP, it takes many months before you can really tell quality. Some things you can cull for early on, like insufficient leg feathering, sprigs on the comb sometimes show up in a few months on the males, incorrect breast color (too much) can show up early on in the males, deformities in their legs (knock-kneed). But in general, best to kept them until at least after their first adult molt at 5-6 months, but even then, some things don't show themselves until the birds are close to a year old or more. Their tail set can continue to change, for instance, and one with good angle on their tail when young can end up squirrel tail when mature. You cannot rush these birds. IMO, that is one reason it is difficult to get good ones. People breed them young, before they have a chance to really mature and show their faults. If everybody could determine quality at a young age, there would not be any challenge in breeding quality birds. But such is not the case. The successful breeders raise up many, many birds and only keep a few. It can be difficult, depending on your situation, to keep a lot of males once those hormones start kicking in and they start squabbling with each other.

 

[IrishAcreFarm]

Thank you so much, desertmarcy! I really appreciate it! I was worried that might be the case. My plan will be to keep them as long as i can manage, and hope for the best. If i choose a roo, i just wont hatch out eggs until i have a better idea.

 

[Chicken Tenders]

I agree with desertmarcy. Our first culls are around 3 months and we are looking for the really obvious DQ. At 4-5 months it really is observation, we cull anyone who doesn't look as good as the others- usually to good homes. We ultimately cull to our top 5 roos at 5-6 months. All the others we move along, just for space reasons. Again we compare them against each other, breeding records, dark egg hatches, parents, needed traits, etc. We will only end up keeping our very best 2 roos with a combinations of parents, dark egg hatches, looks, and what we need to pair our pullets/ hens with being the deciding factors. We first see our best judge of adulthood traits at 7-8 months. We have very few surprises after that. BCM are tough because they develop so slowly. You have to plan to be in it for the long haul and not second guess yourself if you decide to move younger along ones due to looks, space, etc.

If you just have a few to select from, try to keep your best 3 for as long as possible. Look for hackle color, body shape & size (knowing they will fill out more)- long/ short necks, tail/ wing proportions, size of feet/ legs are a good indication how big they will get (like a puppy growing into his paws), feather color, etc. Do take into account the darkness of the egg your roo hatched from as the dark color of eggs is further improved with males that have hatched from dark eggs- they will pass along this gene and it can be the difference between a 6, 7, or 8 color in next years pullets.

Hope that helps!