Blue Copper and Splash Copper Marans Discussion

[heath_elisha]

So are we to look for a more uniform color from the hackles all the way through to the tail? My two blue copper cockerels allowed me to see that. One had much more dark red on his wings- the other one (Cowboy- aka pinks) is much more uniform all the way through. it only changes slightly. But his over all color is more golden then red.

 

[pinkchick]

Another thing to mention about Blue......
Blue acting as a diluting gene can have effects on the copper...such as lightening it a bit. Not always but definitely can.
I've had 2 males that I grew out that were lighter in the copper dept but they definitely were not straw or true gold.

Remember this guy? Lightest one I ever grew out. He sure was a weird one........I should have let him grow out a bit longer before butchering, but I needed the room as I had too many cockerels at that time. His hackles didn't change much from the time I took this photo and processed (about 3 months I think). He even had light saddles....but look at the red in the shoulder. He even had the lovely fluff at the tail break........

 

[flgardengirl]

I agree about the copper getting lightened. I had one male that almost looked seriously light yellow blonde on his hackles but not silver or cream. I am wondering if he only had one copper gene and one silver gene. I wish I still had him, he was pretty.

Another thing to work on with the blue coppers is getting the ear feathering copper as well. Often on the darker blue copper males the ear will remain dark blue while the rest of the back of the head and neck are copper.

I figure overall they are about the same problems as with the black coppers just more diluted and the mahogany when present really stands out more on the blue background than the black.

I usually cross back to black copper when the blue coppers get too light and washed out. Sometimes I end up with blue copper girls getting so light blue that they have big splotches of dark blue coming through but they aren't quite splashes either. That's when I think its good to cross back to a well balanced black copper. I know some people have differing opinions about this. It also helps get the darker blues as well as lacing back into them.

 

[pinkchick]

I agree about the copper getting lightened. I had one male that almost looked seriously light yellow blonde on his hackles but not silver or cream.  I am wondering if he only had one copper gene and one silver gene. I wish I still had him, he was pretty. 

Another thing to work on with the blue coppers is getting the ear feathering copper as well. Often on the darker blue copper males the ear will remain dark blue while the rest of the back of the head and neck are copper.

I figure overall they are about the same problems as with the black coppers just more diluted and the mahogany when present really stands out more on the blue background than the black.

I usually cross back to black copper when the blue coppers get too light and washed out. Sometimes I end up with blue copper girls getting so light blue that they have big splotches of dark blue coming through but they aren't quite splashes either. That's when I think its good to cross back to a well balanced black copper. I know some people have differing opinions about this. It also helps get the darker blues as well as lacing back into them.

AGREED!
Gnarles was the only Blue Copper rooster I have had that had copper ear coverts. Too bad he had a twisted blade and he died. Will say though...I had better copper coloring in female offspring from him than any other male I have used.

I also lost alot in the edging and got the washed out blue you speak of when I bred strictly the blue to and blue to splash for 3 years...except for when using Bill, my very dark blue copper, almost black, but with Bill, I had to fight clean legs as he was clean legged and lost all copper in the females. I have come full circle with my project of breeding Bill's blood into my birds, got a full replica of him now complete with feathered legs....but again, back to the very very dark blue that appears black and the mahogany.

 

[pinkchick]

This was the only Splash Copper that I grew out that showed the least amount of red on him anywhere......should have kept him but he was a mean bugger. My bet is that he might have helped with making a blue copper that had more of a correct copper color. Guess I will just have to wait and if I get another one like him and not mean, grow him out and test him.

 

[flgardengirl]

Wow I really like his look even if its not conventional. He is really stunning.

 

[pinkchick]

Thanks but he was a meanie..........and we all know where the meanies end up.


This is what I ended up with when I bred blue to blue and splash to blue for 3 years.

No hackle color and no edging.

 

[snowbird]

So how often should a person use a Black Copper with their blues? And would you mind explaining what the benefits of using a Black Copper from time to time would be?

I would never use a BC male over the Blue Copper, or Splash. If I needed to darken up the Color on the Blue Copper I would use either a Blue Copper male or a splash over a Black Copper female. The only way I would use the Black Copper at all is if it was a necessity and last resort. Once a person starts working with the Blue Copper there would not be much chance of using the Black copper in the Blue Copper breeding program. Just like any of the other Marans start your breeding program with a little genetic diversity and then go to linebreeding only. Then just cull the unwanted factors to make it easier down the road.

I plan on adding some Blue Copper in the near future and will show here what I am attempting to do, and I think this would be good for anyone else to do also.

 

[flgardengirl]

Thanks but he was a meanie..........and we all know where the meanies end up.

This is what I ended up with when I bred blue to blue and splash to blue for 3 years.

No hackle color and no edging.

Ya my house!!! Lol, least that's what it seems like lately haha.

Yes that's the type of faded washed out blue jean color that my girls get too. Sometimes they will have a dark blue tail feather or some blue splotches on their bodies. Really the powdery blue is a pretty color but not what's desired I guess. I like how the powdery blue ones look at dusk running around in my garden They kinda glow like the whites and the lav chickens do.

 

[pinkchick]

I would never use a BC male over the Blue Copper, or Splash. If I needed to darken up the Color on the Blue Copper I would use either a Blue Copper male or a splash over a Black Copper female. The only way I would use the Black Copper at all is if it was a necessity and last resort. Once a person starts working with the Blue Copper there would not be much chance of using the Black copper in the Blue Copper breeding program. Just like any of the other Marans start your breeding program with a little genetic diversity and then go to linebreeding only. Then just cull the unwanted factors to make it easier down the road.

I plan on adding some Blue Copper in the near future and will show here what I am attempting to do, and I think this would be good for anyone else to do also.

Phew! Good thing I have never had a nice enough Black Copper male to use for anything. Glad that I have only used Blue Coppers or the Splash Copper boys.

Don, I can't wait to see what you will do with the Blue Coppers and what you will teach us!