Blue/red Orps?? Genetics & possible projects?

[hinkjc]

Value to me is not measured by money. You are right in that we make no profit on any of our projects. We invest much more than we could ever recoup, but I do enjoy working on them and pursuing my goals.

I don't think we can say how many projects is too many. There are 35000 members here, so if 5-10 want to work on a project, I think that's great and would support them in any way I can.

Why would we want to import birds from another country when most everything we have to develop new colors is right here and just needs to be made. I have always believed in working for what's mine.

 

[lildinkem]

I know it is WAY MORE then money. Heck IF it was only money, then I think we would have all those colors here in the USA that the Frenchies have.
For me it is ENERGY. I am a one man team. NO help from my wife. I know you know how much effort it takes to feed these Orps. Their pigs. And being north of me, winter sux here. I replace water twice a day when it goes under 20 degrees. Keeps a guy in shape.
So the dedication is what I think lacks for a novice at creating birds, when you go to the extreme, the way you and Charlie do to create a breed or color.
And I have to clean up for alot less birds then you guys have. And that in itself takes alot outta the fun of doing a project.
I just think it is quicker and easier to get the color variety by just importing. I think a bird is near $1,500 once you finally get one over here. BUT, you have the correct type and color. Now, how long would it take a person like tgrlily to get a bird of that quality? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years?
That is just one more way to get the same place.

 

[Krys109uk]

For the longest time I thought BC ment Black Cochin...

It took a while guessing some of the abbreviations used for the various states of USA ....so I extended BC to Canada & came up with British Columbia.

Unfortunately it still didn't make sense.

I just think it is quicker and easier to get the color variety by just importing. I think a bird is near $1,500 once you finally get one over here. BUT, you have the correct type and color. Now, how long would it take a person like tgrlily to get a bird of that quality? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years?
That is just one more way to get the same place.

I can't agree at all. I think it costs a lot more than that to get the birds to USA, If you include costs at both ends. And even when you get them here you can't be certain what you're getting. Just because one might have paid a lot of money does not guarantee the bird won't have issues. The money & import export regs do not guarantee anything other than the bird won't have certain diseases. At least if ones made the birds oneself, one knows what one is getting. One also learns quite a bit along the way.​

 

[tgrlily]

Wow, lildinkem.... do you know me at all? I think it is very funny to assume that someone wouldn't have the time, money, energy or dedication that it involves to work on colors rather than importing them. FYI... I work part time and am self-employed & do quite well, thanks. I have the support & help of my DH & my 2 kids. We are all doing this together as a family activity. If I chose to do so, I could import birds... but I am a creative, energetic person who would rather enjoy the challenge and mental stimulation from doing this myself. I've been reading about genetics with my 9 year old son who loves the learning and scientific aspect of breeding for new colors -- or colors that exist in other countries. I have never done anything half-heartedly so I don't think I would know how to do that.

BTW -- The Orpington was also considered a "mutt" when it was first created.


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[tgrlily]

Thanks Jody!!! You and Charlie are an inspiration to many of us novices!

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[Katy]

lildenkim....You and I disagree on what a mutt chicken is. If a person is trying to develop a new color (at least new in the US) I don't consider it a mutt....it's an orpington.....just a combination of the two colors, that with a lot of work will become that new color. A mutt to me is a combination of breeds, not colors. Even then all breeds started out as mutts.

 

[lildinkem]

Krys109uk I rather learn rom others mistakes. And lets says it is $3000 to import a bird. To get a bird from a reputable UK breeder. I know that the UK does have one or two reputable breeders for Orpingtons, I read somewhere that is where Orpingtons are from.
How many birds would you have to raise to just get to the point where you have the same quality as the one you can buy for $3000?
For me, I guess that each Orp eats near $30 a year in food. From your initial breedings, your not just hatching a dozen chicks to raise to get the desired color and MORE importantly type. You need to raise HUNDREDS of chicks. Just to weed out 10 or so that MIGHT have some form of TYPE and color. And even then, you need to repeat the process several times. So, IF raising 200 chicks to an age that you can say for sure their worthy or not is even $15 per bird, your in for $300 to $400, and that is just food to raise generation one.
Like hinjc says, there is more then money. EFFORT and ENERGY to raise hundreds of chicks. Year in and year out for at least 3 years. More like 5 to 10 years. That is one heck of a learning experince. You should get a degree for that.

Just to get a bird that is EVEN in quality. And the bird you raise could flop over and croak just as easily as the import.
Again, I think it is worth the $3000 for that perfect TYPE and color bird to use and introduce into a breeding program here, then crating one from scrath.. Plus, you might give up, loose your health before you ever finish this project, IF you do not import.

 

[lildinkem]

katy IF you import a purebred Orp, of another color, it is not a mutt. Your right.
I have a Black Orp breed one of my Buff Orps. That is an Orp. Just nothing that I would use in ANY breeding program.
You are the manager of your own flock. And this is a great place to trade ideas and express them. I am sure that there are those who like my idea of getting another color Orp by importing over the idea of creating one from scratch.
We obviously know, that there are alot of people who rather use, their own knowledge, money, and ENERGY to create a variety of chicken, that only exists outside the USA, over importing.
To you folks I say,
GO FOR IT!

 

[Krys109uk]

The amount of time for each project will vary depending upon what one is creating. Probably an average of about 4 years especially if one doesn't have to leave the breed to nick the genes.
Even top breeders can have genetic issues in closely bred lines. You don't have to believe me....I could be inventing it. What do you call a reputable breeder. Of course no-one would be going to all that trouble to buy from a breeder who was not reputable. There are no 'perfect' birds.

Now you are perfectly entitled to have whatever opinion you want to have based upon your own experiences. And I may have whatever opinion I like based upon my own experiences.

 

[lildinkem]

Krys109uk, it is all about getting there with a finished product.
I know, you know genetics way better then me. I know nothing.
What about this way of getting there. Couldn't you still stay within the Orpington breed, and selectively breed birds that already have shown hints of Red? With the hopes of cultivating that color out thru generation of breedings?


Example: Here is one of my Buff Roo's, who is no show bird, but the coloring is showing red ( in my eyes compared to my other Buff ). By, using a Roo like this back to other Reddish Buff Orps, wouldn't you eventually get there with a more Red Orp then Buff?

By attempting to create a new color this way, you don't have to import.
And still ONLY use Orps for breeding. NO OUTSIDE ORP BLOOD.