Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

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At present we have two organizations that are defining what Heritage chicken is. That is the ALBC and the Heritage Poultry Conservancy. Both worked together to draw up the description. (See quote below). The APA has a committee that is working on an APA definition. Most likely it will be very similar to theirs. Bob has a point. If the breed is listed in the 1960's Standard of Perfection then you can probably be safe to call it Heritage...aka... American Heritage. If it is not listed, it may be rare or old, but would not fall into the definition of Heritage.

In about 1977 we learned we were Organic. We remained organic until the USDA and an organization ruled we could only use the term organic IF we were certified. We are still natural, but no longer organic because we declined to pay $$$$$$ to be able to use the term organic. At present there are several terms in poultry that are vague....Pure bred....Heritage...Show Quality... and Exhibition. The term means whatever the seller intends for it to mean. When we say Exhibition, one thinks of birds that have won in shows, yet some sell eggs and chicks as exhibition and have never shown. To some pure means it resembles the breed. I have two different breeds of Buff Orpingtons. Both are pure. One will weigh 10# or more the other only about 6#. One is Standard bred, the other is not. We keep the production hen because she lays a lot and is gentle. When we are collecting eggs for incubation, she goes into the duck pen. Can't tell her from teh others.

The term Heritage is at present what ever the person who uses it thinks it means. But most will be referring to the definition of the ALBC.

http://www.albc-usa.org/heritagechicken/definition.html

Definition:

Heritage Chicken must adhere to all the following:

1. APA Standard Breed. Heritage Chicken must be from parent and grandparent stock of breeds recognized by the American Poultry Association (APA) prior to the mid-20th century; whose genetic line can be traced back multiple generations; and with traits that meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed. Heritage Chicken must be produced and sired by an APA Standard breed. Heritage eggs must be laid by an APA Standard breed.
2. Naturally mating. Heritage Chicken must be reproduced and genetically maintained through natural mating. Chickens marketed as Heritage must be the result of naturally mating pairs of both grandparent and parent stock.
3. Long, productive outdoor lifespan. Heritage Chicken must have the genetic ability to live a long, vigorous life and thrive in the rigors of pasture-based, outdoor production systems. Breeding hens should be productive for 5-7 years and roosters for 3-5 years.
4. Slow growth rate. Heritage Chicken must have a moderate to slow rate of growth, reaching appropriate market weight for the breed in no less than 16 weeks. This gives the chicken time to develop strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass.

Chickens marketed as Heritage must include the variety and breed name on the label.

Terms like “heirloom,” “antique,” “old-fashioned,” and “old timey” imply Heritage and are understood to be synonymous with the definition provided here.

Abbreviated Definition: A Heritage Egg can only be produced by an American Poultry Association Standard breed. A Heritage Chicken is hatched from a heritage egg sired by an American Poultry Association Standard breed established prior to the mid-20th century, is slow growing, naturally mated with a long productive outdoor life.

The American Livestock Breeds Conservancy has over 30 years of experience, knowledge, and understanding of endangered breeds, genetic conservation, and breeder networks.

Endorsed by the following individuals:
Frank Reese, Reese Turkeys, Good Shepherd Turkey Ranch, Standard Bred Poultry Institute, and American Poultry Association;
Marjorie Bender, Research & Technical Program Director, American Livestock Breeds Conservancy
D. Phillip Sponenberg, DVM, PhD., Technical Advisor, American Livestock Breeds Conservancy, and Professor, Veterinary Pathology and Genetics, Virginia Tech;
Don Bixby, DVM. Independent Consultant, former Executive Director for the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy;
R. Scott Beyer, PhD, Associate Professor, Poultry Nutrition Management, Kansas State University,
Danny Williamson, Windmill Farm, Good Shepherd Turkey Ranch, and American Poultry Association;
Anne Fanatico, PhD, Research Associate, Center for Excellence for Poultry Science, University of Arkansas;
Kenneth E. Anderson, Professor, Poultry Extension Specialist, North Carolina State University.​
 
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I don't want to get too far off the beaten path.
Here is an interesting question for both newbies, like myself, but especially you seasoned breeders.
Hypothetically, IF you could talk to one of the greatest breeders of today OR yester year, what 3 to 5 questions would you ask?
You can say what breeder you would love to ask 3 questions too? And what IF you were able to talk to a Dr Clive Carefoot, or Doc Clevenger, if you are an Orp guy. You Reds guys have your breeders. Who and what would you ask him?
Just a thought, alot of us new folks get intimidated when talking to the legends like Bob, Walt and others..
 
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Nettie Metcalf - what kind of game she used in buckeyes!
Ralf sturgen - how he bred such great BR
just to name a few............
punky
 
Quote:
Nettie Metcalf - what kind of game she used in buckeyes!
Ralf sturgen - how he bred such great BR
just to name a few............
punky

From my understanding Nettie Metcalf used Black Breasted Red in her breeding of the Buckeye.
 
Quote:
Nettie Metcalf - what kind of game she used in buckeyes!
Ralf sturgen - how he bred such great BR
just to name a few............
punky

From my understanding Nettie Metcalf used Black Breasted Red in her breeding of the Buckeye.

yes but we don't know what breed of game she used
 
Oops, maybe not, thought that I had read it in the ALBC page on the web, guess I didn't,
from the ALBC:

Buckeyes were developed by Mrs. Nettie Metcalf of Warren, Ohio, and appropriately named after the “Buckeye State.” Buckeyes are unique in the American Class of chickens in that it is the only breed created entirely by a woman. Mrs. Metcalf started by breeding a Buff Cochin male to Barred Plymouth Rock females. This produced what she considered a large, lazy fowl. The next year she purchased a Black-Breasted Red Game male and crossed this male over the half cochin pullets. This cross produced several red offspring and from there she developed the breed. It is interesting to note that her creation predated the introduction of Rhode Island Reds into the mid-west.​
 
Quote:
Nettie Metcalf - what kind of game she used in buckeyes!
Ralf sturgen - how he bred such great BR
just to name a few............
punky

From my research and understanding:

Nettie Metcalf - Used a Red Malay that may have also been used in the RIR. Sadly, it is no longer known to exist. Description has it being closer to a cornish type than the current Malay.

Ralf Sturgen - how he bred such great BR? Started where he was and went from there. Hatched a lot and culled heavy!
 
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I have been graced to befriended by many great breeders, Robert Blosl is one of them.
His guidence is wonderful!
I also have posed many questions to Monte Bowan, and he chastised me immediately for my language use...#1 A 'roo' is a slang term for a large ugly marsupial in Austrailia...and so on.
Proper usage of the bird's names and sex is necessary, as some "old timers" will not give you the time of day what with our cyber-language...'
#2 is how he explains the egg color comes from the Cock...his daughters will have the egg size and color as he came from.
#3 is how he explained to me that introducing a new breed to my breed to get a satisfying outcome is wrong, wrong, wrong!!!
Best to follow what he says is the addage that you "start with what you have" and cull anything undesireable.
Was that Ralph Sturgen ?? Cannot remember...but those were my Qs: 1)should I introduce a new bloodline ?
2) should I introduce a new breed to influence egg size ?

and what I really need to is concentrate on what I have..tour the coops as Robert has said, watch the body shape, have patience, and follow the SOP.
I have the SOP from Waaaay back, and the RIW are in there, and I AM watching.
Just as I was told tp do so.
Will do the same with my Javas, and Buckeyes.
One day at a time.
Do the best you can with what you have.
The old timers had no internet nor money to advertise all over their need to buy brood stock of this or that.
Good point to ponder there.
wink.png
 
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