Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[haTHOR]

only 8-11 days space between roo #1 and roo #2? i have always heard you need three weeks of time between the last day roo# 1 is with your girls (and taking a roo from them completely OR putting roo #2 with them) and the day you can for sure know the eggs they lay are definitely from roo #2.

 

[Katy]

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I always allow 30 days....to be on the safe side.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

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This subject came up at the Arkansas State Fair. Dr Keith Bramwell, UA Extension Reproductive Physiologist ( http://poultryscience.uark.edu/4633.htm ), told us that you actually need no time to wait. If the new male is in good health his sperm will be on top and used first. Eventually the old male's will be absorbed into the hen's system. Dr Bramwell is considered an expert in this area. He is also on the board of the Heritage Poultry Conservancy. Heard he helped P. Allen Smith recently import some Barred Plymouth Rock hatching eggs from Australia.

From the University of Arkansas website:

Research Area
The many factors (both management and physiological) that influence fertility and embryonic mortality in broiler breeders. Specifically, Dr. Bramwell has been involved with studies on the effects of breeder flock age on the decline in fertility and sperm-egg interaction, hatchability and the associated increases in early embryonic mortality from a commercial perspective.
Hatching egg handling and storage and the effects on hatchability and embryo livability.
The various areas of the poultry industry as they relate to reproduction and hatchery management.​

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

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i raised 3 of the Buckeye X Buff cross... all roosters... they where colored like a production RIR instead of the dark red of the Buckeye... how many generation would it take to get a buff bird back out of a cross like this???

Most likely if they were bred together, the chicks would be about the same. You would want to breed back to a buff to increase the buff color. Penny was not the best bird to cross. Yours were a test hatch to check fertility in the Buckeye male. The two I have now were supposed to be from the Buckeye pen. Last time I trust Jacob to gather hatching eggs. Hoping we can get some fair quality Buffs when we breed the cross back to a Buff Chantecler.

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
This subject came up at the Arkansas State Fair. Dr Keith Bramwell, UA Extension Reproductive Physiologist ( http://poultryscience.uark.edu/4633.htm ), told us that you actually need no time to wait. If the new male is in good health his sperm will be on top and used first. Eventually the old male's will be absorbed into the hen's system. Dr Bramwell is considered an expert in this area. He is also on the board of the Heritage Poultry Conservancy. Heard he helped P. Allen Smith recently import some Barred Plymouth Rock hatching eggs from Australia.

From the University of Arkansas website:

Research Area
The many factors (both management and physiological) that influence fertility and embryonic mortality in broiler breeders. Specifically, Dr. Bramwell has been involved with studies on the effects of breeder flock age on the decline in fertility and sperm-egg interaction, hatchability and the associated increases in early embryonic mortality from a commercial perspective.
Hatching egg handling and storage and the effects on hatchability and embryo livability.
The various areas of the poultry industry as they relate to reproduction and hatchery management.
​

what about using buff orpingtons to help the chanteclers?

 

[Robert Blosl]

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All of these are great old time Standard Breed Birds. Each and every one of them need someone to help keep them going in time.

http://www.freewebs.com/poultrylanefarm/apps/photos/photo?photoid=105881307

Want to see some nice silikies and Buff Orpingtons go to the above site. Excellent looking birds. Thank you for having a interest in our hobby.

In the comment about waiting long lenths of time between changing a male It has been taught to me to wait about ten days. The eggs are still put in the incubator while the first male is rested and the second male is introduced to the females. It was told to me that once the clutch of eggs have been fertilized from male one that male two sill not have any impact on the first male. I think we need to get down to basics and not make this chicken hobby so complicated. Keep it simple as if you make it to complicated it becomes work and you will loose interest, get frustrated and you will fail.

I got a message from a new fellow from Illinois who wants to get started with Rhode Island Reds and Barred Plymouth Rock large fowl. Anyone know a breeder in this State that can help him get a start.??

The cold pills worked stayed in be for ten hours. Got to go and water the ducks check on the chickens and get ready to go to work again. Got one more night then off two days to rest up.

Thank goodness I dont have chicks and eggs to take care of right now.

If I could talk to a old time breeder from the Past I would like to talk to E B Thompson the barred rock breeder who had the Riglett Strain. Harold Thompkins of Mass, Rhode Island Red King who died in 1954. Also, Arthur Schiling the famous Judge, Artist and White Leghorn breeder. I wish I could talk to old time waterfowl breeders on how to breed the Gray Call Color Pattern or the mallard color pattern. Cant find anything on how the use to do it.


bob

 

[OSUman]

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All of these are great old time Standard Breed Birds. Each and every one of them need someone to help keep them going in time.

In the comment about waiting long lenths of time between changing a male It has been taught to me to wait about ten days. The eggs are still put in the incubator while the first male is rested and the second male is introduced to the females. It was told to me that once the clutch of eggs have been fertilized from male one that male two sill not have any impact on the first male. I think we need to get down to basics and not make this chicken hobby so complicated. Keep it simple as if you make it to complicated it becomes work and you will loose interest, get frustrated and you will fail.

I got a message from a new fellow from Illinois who wants to get started with Rhode Island Reds and Barred Plymouth Rock large fowl. Anyone know a breeder in this State that can help him get a start.??
I know Dianne Weer has Some good RIRs she is in Central IL

The cold pills worked stayed in be for ten hours. Got to go and water the ducks check on the chickens and get ready to go to work again. Got one more night then off two days to rest up.

Thank goodness I dont have chicks and eggs to take care of right now.

If I could talk to a old time breeder from the Past I would like to talk to E B Thompson the barred rock breeder who had the Riglett Strain. Harold Thopkns of Mass Rhode Island Red King who died in 1954. Also, Arthur Schiling the famous Judge, Artist and White Leghorn breeder. I wish I could talk to old time waterfowl breeders on how to breed the Gray Call Color Pattern or the mallard color pattern. Cant find anything on how the use to do it.


bob

 

[Jared77]

Boy this is a good group of questions I am so happy you asked them.
I have a new friend who wants Columbian Plymouth Rock Large Fowl. He does not want to show them but wants to try and improve them if he can. I have a good friend named Yard Full of Rocks who has two strains of Columbian Plymouth Rocks. He has a strain for the mid west that is not to bad trying very hard to look like a Columbian Plymouth Rock in Color and Type.

He also has the new Strain from Canada that look so much nicer for color and type.
Lets say my friend gets ten started chicks from Yard Full of Rocks. He then culls down to two males and three females. He then puts the three females in a 4x4 pen and each female has room in her pen to eat and lay her eggs. He rotates the male to each pen every day then on the fourth day he lets him stay in his own 4x4 pen to eat and recharge himself. Then he is rotated back again to pen one pen two and pen three every other day. Each egg is marked pen one pen two and pen three. Each chick is hatched in baskets made from wire cages in the incubator and toe punched to the pen they come out of. Then my friend lets the male rest from the females for say 8 days then puts the second male in the females pens just like I described before. This then would be pen four , five and six chicks coming from this mating. He raises the chicks up and looks to see which hen or male produces the best chicks from these pedigree matings.

Then the second year he does this all over again keeps the most vigorous birds and puts together another line breeding program which we will not go into at this moment. Let’s say he goes to five or seven years everything is going well the birds improve each year for type and color, but he wants new or fresh blood for new vigor. . Does he go to some strange breeder for a new male? No Should he order eggs from a stranger in California who has this color pattern. No ? Should he cross them on to say a nice White Rock Large fowl Male? No

Most likely they would turn into Barred Rocks. He would not go to a total stranger in California because he would introduce to his closed strain outside blood and the genes would clash.

What he needs to do is go back to Yard Full of Rocks and get two dozen eggs or ten started chicks or meet him at a chicken show and swap out a male or a female and then cross these birds back into his strain in Minnesota. Or he could have a male or female brought in to the Ohio National Show from Canada from the Original Breeder like we did this year for Yard Full of Rocks.

I think the secret is to NETWORK with each other that you can trust a breed and strain of birds. Keep the gene pool closed only between the breeders of the original strain coming out of Canada or whoever you get your start from . I have two friends who have Art Lundgen Gray Calls. We swap birds with each other to get new blood. One fellow lives in Oregon and one lives in Arkansas. We can rotate birds with each other for 20 years and never destroy our gene pool that we are working on. Does this make Sense?

In getting started with Delaware’s. You can get a start from a person who has a good strain and then try to breed them up for type and color. If you ever need new blood you can go back to her and get more birds, swap birds with her at a shows or get birds from a customer that she sold eggs to a few years ago. Always try to stay with the strain you got your start from. Don’t mix strains of any breed as when you do you stir up a hornets’ nest with the germ plasma or the gene pool of this strain.
Don’t out cross to a White or a Buff gird to get new blood. Stay with what you have.
Here is another idea.

Start your own strain of Delaware’s by Crossing a great Barred Rock male onto two super good New Hampshire Females. You will get maybe two chicks out of ten that will have the color of the Delaware. Then start a line breeding program at your home with what you have that looks as close to the Delaware standard. Share these birds with others within the Delaware Club. Build a closed gene pool over ten or twenty years you will have Delaware’s that all will be happy with and the stain will go on for years and years to come.
I have found to have small matings of pairs or trios. Have two or three pairs or trios per breed. Toe punch and even better wing band your little chicks. Learn who produces the best off spring. Breed from the best and cull the rest. That is the secret.

I do this with my White rock bantams only two pairs been breeding this line for 8 years. I have Rhode Island Red Bantams I have breed them for 23 years and only have three small families. However, I have two partners who have my line and I can get birds from them whenever I need them. I have three pairs of Gray Call ducks. Line Breeding them each year for five years.

I have a strain of old white leghorn bantams that go back 60 years. Have two males and four females.
My old line of Bill Bowman Buff Bahamas I have two trios. The list goes on. Small numbers two trios and hatch about 50 to 60 chicks from the best females and males per breed. Each year hope you go up a half a point or so and they look better every three to five years. Need new blood go back to who you got them from or a person who has your strain. I hope I painted the picture for you.

If I was going to get Dark Cornish I would have two pair from a killer breeder from say North Louisiana . When I needed new blood I would go back to him or folks he shared his birds with and get a new bird to introduce to my flock. Never buy from a different strain because you will destroy his years of work in line breeding.

Well I am out of gas. Got to take my cold pills and go to bed. Great Great questions. Keep them coming. What I have said will work with Buff Leghorns, Java’s, Rhode Island Whites and Buckeyes. I don’t know the lady who invented the Buckeyes or what she used to get them to the Standard. I only know one thing If I had them I would breed them to the Standard of Perfection and I would get with the super stars that raise them today in the USA. There are many great breeders out there that have them and are willing to teach you. Will edit in the am. Wish I had a spell checker on this thread. bob

Bob thank you! Thats the info I've been needing, and I think others need too. I was afraid to go back to that same line for fear of being too close but if it works then thats what Ill do. Thank you for sharing this with us, its a real relief knowing I'm not going to an outcross and undoing all the work I put in just to have to rebuild.​

 

[Junior]

Bob,

has the new fellow checked with Greg for the Reds?

 

[Robert Blosl]

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Maybe Roy can help you find one or he may have one. They are very rare. The cost about $50 each. I just dont know one laying around some place in your region. Found the spell checker my wife put on the lap top. My fingers and being tired screws my posts up. bob