Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
Big bucks? I do not recall anyone discussing paying you big bucks at the APA meeting at Crossroads. However, your knowledge is worth a lot more than you are paid!

Here is a buck to help you out!

You will have to collect it from Mike Gilbert! http://redstagacres.com

FYI to those wanting to know more about the Chantecler. Mike also has lots of Chantecler. You can also learn more about the Chantecler at http://www.chanteclerfanciersinternational.org/

 

[bnjrob]

We see variations of the breeds to make them more suitable to their area........thus the comb variations by locale.

Walt - have you seen a lot comb variations due to influence of location/temperature/weather?

 

[kathyinmo]

..just keep your nose clean and stay out of my way......mkay?

Watch out - cuz I'm comin'...... one of these days!
I'll show my birds one day - when they are ready, and I am ready.

Quote:

'I know the whole deal when it comes to the statement of "there's no such thing as a silent rooster", but which heritage breeds are quieter than others? Which are the most sociable? Which are the meatiest? and Which are the Showiest (if you consider it a word)? Knowing these things will help me pitch the idea of getting heritage chickens for breeding and meat to my parents,who aren't exactly supportive of the whole idea...

It really is nice to see a teen interested. Welcome to Bob's thread! Are you in 4H or FFA? Maybe there is someone near you that could be a mentor? First thing - get your hands on an SOP and read it. I bet you will get excited just reading through it. Anyway, I do. Then, I want to check it all out - ya know, compare some of the things to "real" chickens. It's kinda like a Bible - ya read it through and through, and over and over, and still learn something new every time.
Good luck to ya!

 

[knittychickadee]

I think some folks are under the impression that a bird bred to standard is "simply," a show bird. I have read many posts insinuating that. In general - if a bird is bred to standard, and is a good representation of it, then it should also be a good dual purpose bird (or whatever their purpose is). Anyway, that's what Walt taught me.

I tried to tell someone that (In general - if a bird is bred to standard, and is a good representation of it, then it should also be a good dual purpose bird (or whatever their purpose is). ) almost exactly about a month or so ago and was totally shot down. They told the person I was trying to help that it was a ''politically correct'' statement made by people who didn't understand the concepts of breeding. I also tried to point out several things in the front of the book like the head and body characteristics figures and I honestly don't think they had ever looked up there at those pages! They still blathered that those were unhelpful with improving your birds because they didn't have specific numbers or measurements so I gave up and didn't go back to listen to any more of their drivel.

 

[bnjrob]

'I know the whole deal when it comes to the statement of "there's no such thing as a silent rooster", but which heritage breeds are quieter than others? Which are the most sociable? Which are the meatiest? and Which are the Showiest (if you consider it a word)? Knowing these things will help me pitch the idea of getting heritage chickens for breeding and meat to my parents,who aren't exactly supportive of the whole idea...

Our Javas are friendly. We have one that actually seems to crave our attention and wants us to pick him up and he will hang out with us rather than with the other chickens if he has a choice. Some of them are noisy, most of the others are quiet - I think it's more of the individual personalities. In the 1800s-early 1900s, Javas were considered to be some of the best table fowl but of course lost favor due to the longer time needed to reach maturity and people wanting quicker turn around time from hatch to table.

There are various colors of Javas - Black and Mottled are the only officially recognized colors, but other colors are showing up in flocks again since people are not culling as stringently for "off" colors as they once did. We have Mottleds and Blacks and have had non-standard coloring show up in both colors. Our "showiest" bird is a 6 month old Mottled cockerel that is not up to the Standard from the APA. He got rid of his mottled feathers and now sports the black/green sheen of the Black Javas with gold accents on his feathers from head down to back and some on the wings. I'm waiting to see if he is going to end up with gold tail feathers. We ended up having some Blacks show up with Auburn feathering so we'll be breeding them separately from the Blacks and the Mottleds.

Good luck with your quest to get your parents on board!

 

[Arielle]

'I know the whole deal when it comes to the statement of "there's no such thing as a silent rooster", but which heritage breeds are quieter than others? Which are the most sociable? Which are the meatiest? and Which are the Showiest (if you consider it a word)? Knowing these things will help me pitch the idea of getting heritage chickens for breeding and meat to my parents,who aren't exactly supportive of the whole idea...

The only thing I have observed about roosters , and I have a lot of them, is when one crows, all the others answer in turn, one after another. Like they are checking in on each other. THey are a little competitive. If someone feels the need to crow at 4:30 am, someone will answer. I have about 6 different breeds of roosters that free range.

Socially, we love the speckled sussex. My boys play with those hens. THe boys collect the bugs and the hens are right there waiting for a goody. THey are usually in my way when weeding. ( from Meyers hatchery)

EYe candy and social. Buff Orpington. Sweet girls. One sat on my lap. ROosters are eye candy for me. I have a couple boys cruising around, I didn't raise them so they stay out of arms reach. ( Meyers and private breeder)

Ameracana--stand offish roosters. Hens are Easter Eggers and my boys spent hours playing with them as chicks. Approachable but not social.

Black Copper Marans-- not cuddly but approachable. I can catch with very little effort and rooster will tolerate handling for 5 minutes.

Roosters-- most of my boys free range and I have children. Only ONE rooster is a problem and he was of hatchery breeding. A second rooster, a marans, is called Nippers, he runs up pulls on my pant leg and looks at me with innocent eyes.

THis has been my limited experience.

 

[Maggiesdad]

'I know the whole deal when it comes to the statement of "there's no such thing as a silent rooster", but which heritage breeds are quieter than others? Which are the most sociable? Which are the meatiest? and Which are the Showiest (if you consider it a word)? Knowing these things will help me pitch the idea of getting heritage chickens for breeding and meat to my parents,who aren't exactly supportive of the whole idea...

You could wow 'em with some nice Black Giants... they are pretty laid back. One roo will get you a couple of crows just before dawn.

If you have multiple roosters though, they're gonna crow. It's like they're trash talking each other.

 

[3riverschick]

I cannot begin to tell you the number of times that this misperception gets repeated. Every time someone extolls of virtues of a bird bred up to standards, the inevitable response is "I don't care about 'show' birds". The confusion comes in part from the idea that if a bird is bred up to its standard that one MUST intend it to be a 'show' bird and there is also, by inference, that a 'show' bird is all looks and thus some kind of fussy, non productive bird.

Bob, Walt (Fowlman01), Al, Bill (NYReds), Kathy and the others here have done such a good job of explaining that so many of these "type" features are essential to the breed's over all health and hardiness as well. I'm very grateful for Bob's patience with many of us who growing in leaps and bounds in both our understand and appreciation for the heritage large fowl. Thank you all.

I go to other lists and preach and preach this . i send them references and articles to read to prove its not just my idea. Sometimes I want to tear my hair out, sigh. I hang out here because folks here understand what Fred has said above. It's just so hard to get anywhere in a discussion when folks aren't even agreed on basic parameters like the ones Fred listed above. It's like speaking in many voices and still trying to have a meaningful conversation.
Best,
karen

 

[3riverschick]

Here down is not directed to anyone, but just something I wanted to say.

B) and my pet peeve..... I don't care what you bred before, especially dogs.....there are very few similarities. That most dogs do not need a precise color pattern is a big difference by itself. ......they are much looser in the dog world. Their Standards are fairly short.

Walt

Hi Walt,
You got that right. I studied a boatload of canine history while in dogs. I was surprised to find the number of eminent dog breeders who had first been in poultry. Harrison Wier, O.P. Bennett, etc. Then I started in poultry. Wow, it is so different and much more complicated than the dog world. No wonder those poulrymen were so good at breeding dogs. It must have seemed like a walk in the park after the poultry!
Best,
Karen

 

[fowlman01]

I realize you don't have to show them, but for myself...

I'm a very visual person. I can study the standard, look at pictures, do everything I can to study and learn. But some things just don't "click" with me until I am looking at it in person, preferably with someone who knows pointing out the differences. I just really think it will help me to be a better caretaker, preserver and breeder if I get that experience that only comes with people like you Walt pointing out both the good and bad things to me. I guess I'm slow, but I can learn, it's just so much easier when I have something to compare to.

I guess if I had someone who lived close enough to come to the farm, sit out by the pond and watch the chickens with me and point out things to me in person I wouldn't need shows. But in my situation I don't have that, so going to a show is the only way I can think of to learn what I need to know. I've already ruined one strain of birds in my life. I don't intend on ever repeating that mistake.

I guess that's my main reason for wanting to show. Not to try and win anything really, but to learn in that crazy way my brain comprehends. As you know, sometimes I miss the most obvious things. For someone like me it's like not being able to see the forest for the trees.

I meant it wasn't necessary to actually show, but I like you I have to see a bird to know what "wide" or "long" really means. You can go to a show and have some one show hyou that. I find most folks are very helpful at shows. Just don't talk to them when they are putting their birds in or taking them out. If distracted they could make a very bad mistake, so they tend to be pretty focused. If you can find some oild guy that is not senile yet at a show it would take him a half hour to teach hyou most of what you need to know to grade your breed. Everything is obvious once it is pointed out. You just need to see examples on a living bird. The main defects in birds are lower breast, wing carriage...mostly in males, width of body and tail carriage. There are a lot more, but those are the things that are easy to see and count for a lot on the birds overall points.

BTW: I don't know of anyone who goes to a poultry show to lose.....

Walt