Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

Between meeting the girls, the hot rods and racing... I don't know how you find time for all those chickens or judging. Much less helping us newbies. lol


One thing I've been thinking about. I'll use myself as an example. It's been mentioned abut people buying birds, shipping them across the country and entering them in shows. I guess I'm odd and old fashioned, but where is the honor in that? If I entered the adult birds I have now and won... What have I won exactly? I didn't choose the parents, I wasn't the breeder. I would just feel like I had bought good stock, not that I was doing anything right myself. The bragging rights in my mind would go to the breeder and then a bit to Junior for doing a good job growing them out for me.

Now once a few generations pass, with ME picking the birds to pair up, culling to improve the breed, raising them, getting them finished and ready for the show... Yeah, then I'LL feel like I'm doing something right if I place or win something.

Just wondered what your thoughts were on that?
==============================================================

I'm not Walt, but I have an opinion, if it's ok. If I bought foundation stock from a breeder, I think
it would be ok to show those birds and let everyone know that they were my foundation stock.
Think it would be ok to showcase the stock to let folks know the quality of birds with which I
was starting. That's how we do it in the dog world. Let everyone see the stock and tell them
about it. Maybe things are different in the poultry world?
karen

 

[Fred's Hens]

I have pictures from a friend to share. These 3 White Rocks were hatched in February.

Well, I am a total sucker for White Rocks. I've got to make contact with a breeder for some come late winter/early spring. Got too late a start asking Bob for help this year.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:

Quote:

I know Larry, Bob. ...maybe forty years or so and we were on the APA Board together. I have a whole pen of stuff I could hang a name on........but is as already been done and done and done........a little inside tip here about names. If you ever think you want a breed in the APA Standard ........don't name it Showgirl, Sizzle or use three names. Can anyone tell me if there is a Showboy? Sex specific names don't fly.

I get discouraged too Bob. My evaluations at the university always said I was a good communicator, but I must be doing something wrong here. You and I don't know everything about chickens, so how is it that all these other people do? Bob......we should learn this chicken stuff online cuz it seems all these folks have learned much more than you and I combined in just a very short time. Maybe we need to watch some youtube videos or something.

I figure there are plenty of lurkers and that audience can make their decisions based on what we say verses what the experts say. For those that don't know this.....you don't necessarily have to know much about chickens to have "Educator" under your name.

There is one thread here I just can't visit anymore.........every time I do I think my head is going to explode. I'll keep posting as long as I think someone wants to learn. I had a lot of help from people when I started and I will never forget that. I'm learning as fast as I can.

Walt

 

[Arielle]

You can only teach those that want to learn.

 

[MagicChicken]

I know Larry, Bob. ...maybe forty years or so and we were on the APA Board together. I have a whole pen of stuff I could hang a name on........but is as already been done and done and done........a little inside tip here about names. If you ever think you want a breed in the APA Standard ........don't name it Showgirl, Sizzle or use three names. Can anyone tell me if there is a Showboy? Sex specific names don't fly.

I get discouraged too Bob. My evaluations at the university always said I was a good communicator, but I must be doing something wrong here. You and I don't know everything about chickens, so how is it that all these other people do? Bob......we should learn this chicken stuff online cuz it seems all these folks have learned much more than you and I combined in just a very short time. Maybe we need to watch some youtube videos or something.

I figure there are plenty of lurkers and that audience can make their decisions based on what we say verses what the experts say. For those that don't know this.....you don't necessarily have to know much about chickens to have "Educator" under your name.

There is one thread here I just can't visit anymore.........every time I do I think my head is going to explode. I'll keep posting as long as I think someone wants to learn. I had a lot of help from people when I started and I will never forget that. I'm learning as fast as I can.

Walt

Keep posting, Walt. A lot of us are listening.

You and Bob have got me looking at chickens in ways I never expected. You've also made me realize there are a lot of questions I need to answer before taking on a heritage breed. I don't want to be one of those people who starts with heritage birds and then runs them into the ground, or disappears after a couple of years.

Wish I knew who said this. It seems appropriate: "When you think you know everything they give you a Bachelor's degree. When you realize you don't know anything they give you a Master's degree. When you realize you don't know anything and no one else knows anything, either, they give you a PhD." Thanks for the PhD-level postings. They are refreshing and the information is useful.

Back to lurking now...

Sarah

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote: I think that is the most important thing a rookie can learn to do is read, study ask questions and re think what you want to do. You may pick a breed to try and not like it. Some of you will try two or three at one time and just raise them to see how the grow, look, lay and if they have enough meat on them to please you. I had a friend in Minnesota who started with Light Brahmas a killer strain, and the Urch Rhode Island Whites and Rose Comb Reds. He did not have good luck with the Whites so he dumped them. Next thing I know he decided to go with the Rose Comb Reds. For him they lay-ed well, hatched like crazy and they just did what he wanted in a dual purpose chicken. The Rhode Island Whites the one top minority breed in large fowl just does not seem to fit in for most beginners. They try but it just does not pan out. The New Hampshire's from Germany strain have been a hit. The mature and start laying very well, they are so color full I don't know how anyone could knock this as a breed to start out with.

When you take on a new breed it must fit in with your climate as well. Will the strain blend in to your cold or heat if not can you have the patients to wait three years in the breeding process for them to adapt to your climate? Many give up a breed because they are in a hurry for results. I have a rare breed of chickens that I am trying to save and that's the Buff Brahmas. I had to wait two years for one male to become fertile again to get chicks out of him. He produced three males and two pullets for me so I can cross them onto a distance cousin who was found in Arkansas and then sent to me as a Christmas present two years ago. The man that breed them died and his strain is just hanging on by a tread be for it goes down the toilet. Not many know I have these birds as they think I only have Rhode Island Reds.

Patients is the key to success in this game of breeding. I have seen so many give up at the five year mark. I hardly see anyone make it to the ten year mark which I consider the key to becoming a master breeder of that breed. Most people fail because they do not understand the history of the breed and put breeding pressure in width of feather such a Rhode Island Red and then the Cochin genes that make up the breed take over and their birds loose all the shape and they can not recover and say the heck with it I will try another breed.

One thing my friend from North Mississippi said is another key secret in breeding. Its vision or seeing what you are making in your line. The make up of a human is in three areas.

Visual, Auditory Kenisenic or feeling. I have studied these traits in sales and if used correctly on a person who is a visual or auditory you can get them to say yes and by the product or service you are trying to offer them. Visual is what Artist use and a breeder is a Artist. He shapes his birds like a fellow who is making a pot and then after it drys he paints it like a artist.

So when you say I have to see what you are telling me this is the number one trait in becoming a good breeder. I have interviewed many master breeders be for they died and I felt each and every one of them was a visual type of person. How do you know if you are a visual. In school the teacher will ask Johnny what is the capital of Washington State. Johnny will look up at the ceiling and a few seconds he will say Olympia. He is looking up at the map of the United States in his minds eye. A person who is a auditory is a person who will say run that by me one more time and tilt his head down like he is hearing it. A person who is a feeling person like my wife touches all the clothes in the store as she is looking for something to buy.

So that is my tip of the day. Visual or wanting to go to the show and talk to a person who breeds a certain breed is a great investment. I get emails with pictures and then I relate back which bird I would keep or get rid of. In the days of video tape I use to make a one hour Christmas video of my chicken and teach them about type. They ended up finding all of them and put them on a DVD. Kind of funny looking at my chickens 20 years ago and listing to me preaching about how to breed for color ect.

Well its time to go out and make three conditioning pens with one inch wire for my young cockerels. I hope to get the project done by tomorrow. Can only work out side for about four hours because of the heat and my age. If I can find the picture of my buff Brahma male I got for Christmas I will ad it on latter today.

Keep the faith and remember to go Slow, go Small, and Go down the middle of the road. Ralph Brazelton Kansas 1987.

 

[Arielle]

Keep posting, Walt. A lot of us are listening.

You and Bob have got me looking at chickens in ways I never expected. You've also made me realize there are a lot of questions I need to answer before taking on a heritage breed. I don't want to be one of those people who starts with heritage birds and then runs them into the ground, or disappears after a couple of years.

Wish I knew who said this. It seems appropriate: "When you think you know everything they give you a Bachelor's degree. When you realize you don't know anything they give you a Master's degree. When you realize you don't know anything and no one else knows anything, either, they give you a PhD." Thanks for the PhD-level postings. They are refreshing and the information is useful.

Back to lurking now...

Sarah

Great quote, Sarah!!!

I feel the same way , concerned about ruining some good birds. THough someone here said it is harder to ruin good birds.

Right now, I'm trying to hone my skills by comparing 4 roosters. To see each one well enough to know which boy I"m looking at--they all free range and I can run into them anywhere on the farm. Makes me look at tail carriage, hackle coloring, comb, body. Starting with a new breed like the marans is more difficult for sure. I wish I had a 3-D model on my computer screen as a reference for body type.

 

[ashandvine]

I think that is the most important thing a rookie can learn to do is read, study ask questions and re think what you want to do.

One thing my friend from North Mississippi said is antoher key secret in breeding. Its vision or seeing what you are making in your line. The make up of a human is in three areas.

Visual, Auditory Kenisenic or feeling. I have studied these traits in sales and if used correctly on a person who is a visual or auditory you can get them to say yes and by the product or service you are trying to offer them. Visual is what Artist use and a breeder is a Artist. He shapes his birds like a fellow who is making a pot and then after it drys he paints it like a artist.

So when you say I have to see what you are telling me this is the number one trait in becoming a good breeder. I have interviewed many master breeders befor they died and I felt each and every one of them was a visual type of person.
So that is my tip of the day. Visual or wanting to go to the show and talk to a person who breeds a certain breed is a great investment.

I feel a lot better about being visual, although it was years of art school that taught me I was global. I can't find Brahmas that aren't Light here and no German New Hampshires either, but I'm still learning so its okay. I'm a bit excited to try Dorkings etc. I'll have a taste of them and Brahmas that aren't industrial this spring once these ones I'm getting grow out a bit.

I have an important question here: A breeder told me that manipulating light makes a difference during growth to the bones/pelvis of chickens. If they aren't pushed with artificial light to become layers they develop their skeleton better. I read above about combs growing longer and wonder if the same wasn't true for other parts of the body. Would some of you speak to that? Where I am trying to work with these dual-purpose birds I want to let them get as big as they can before their hormones kick into high gear.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I want it to be clear that lots of people beat me, but I dont like those kind of people to beat me but it is also an opportunity to compete with a breeder who is on the other end of the US. Win or lose it is an opportunity. The exhibitor who would buy birds to show will soon find out that no one can win all the time ...then the real breeders kick it up a notch and go gunning for the bird buyer. Two years is the usual lifespan of the high roller bird buyers. some of these birds go for obscene amounts, so showing a string can cost thousands of dollars.

I guess as long as you think that you miss obvious things....you will. I don't think you do. You can't expect to get the eye you are looking for as quickly as you would like, but I am sure you won't miss things that are pointed out. I even miss things and most of this is second nature to me. I'm judging the chickens in movies and commercials...the judge in me is on all the time when I see chickens...so because I saw it it doesn't mean that many overs saw it either. Everything is obvious when pointed out.

Walt

When I think about the show or don't show question, I guess it comes down to a point of view, or orientation. I'm certainly not going to feel a sense of accomplishment for showing some else's bird. None of my talents have come into play save that of keeping the bird in condition, and as Walt points out, buying a string could be really expensive. However, if we come at it from the point of view of putting a show together, as part of the team who puts on the NH show, if you've some great birds, I want to see them at the show. It boosts numbers and peaks interest. But maybe there needs to be room for sensitivity. We have some great Black Muscovies, which come out of Jim Zook's stock. Mr. Zook lives far away and does not show in our region. I've shown a drake I received as duckling from him on multiple occasions, and it added to the pagentry of the show. Five generations later, the muscovies I show are all born here. Then I gave credit to Mr. Zook for the stock, and I still do, multiple generations into it. I imagine I always shall, for that's part of the romance for me--the history. On another note, I procured a Pilgrim gander from Steve Blash to pair with a quartet of Pilgrim geese I received from a lovely retiree who could no longer maintain them. She originally had them from the now defunct Pilgrim Goose Farm. Because Steve runs the show in Massachusetts, and we are always at the same shows, I shall never show the gander, unless Steve isn't showing any Pilgrims, and then I might to add to the pagentry of the show. In which case, Steve would be there, and it would be common knowledge that the gander were his. He'd be proud as could be--in his very subtle, low-key manner, of course. Still, chances are I shan't ever show him, because I have a pasture full of his young, and I'd rather bring some of those and sit with Steve to discuss them.

I guess that's another point, I don't know if I'm ever going to have the sense that something is mine. I often have folks over here going over birds with me, and at the shows I corner anyone I can for imput. Although, of course, I have my own thoughts, I am always turning over in my head what these mentors and friends are telling me. So, even if I'm alone, making a decision, it's like they're there making the decision with me. So, in a way, I guess "my" stock is always going to be a community effort for which I'm just the hub, but I like it that way. Contrariwise, there's a gentleman in the region, who rarely, if ever, sells stock and who rarely, if ever, allows visitors. He has great stock, so, to each his own. I wonder, though, how many, if honest, have a sitution more like ours, one where you sense that between the books and the mentors is found the seed for success, and your stock is better and better because of the community-effort that in one way or another supports it.

Even if we never meet, Walt and Bob, you have added significantly to what I do and think. Walt, I can't look at one of our Dorkings now without trying to imagine my fist in between their shanks. And, Bob, your introducing me to the outstandingly fecund poultry author, John Henry Robinson, alone has been an amazing service. I read him and re-read him. He has a little book, (check out this title) Standard Poultry for Exhibition: A Complete Manual of the Methods of Expert Exhibitors on Growing, Selecting, Conditioning, Training, and Showing Poultry--Fully Describing Fitting Processes and Exposing Faking Practices--Briefly Explaining Judging for..., which is and outstandingly informative read, not just for what he's saying, but reading between the lines, he does an excellent job of letting the reader into the turn of the century poultry world--the state of the shows, breeders, and also his impressions of the state of the various breeds and varieties at that time, which subsequently helps to shed a light on the state of breeds and varieties now. When Bob was talking about varieties that never actually met the Standard requirements to begin with, and, therefore, what are we saving, Robinson's thoughts on this are interesting. Thus, if such and such a variety of Wyandotte were no good then, and they're no good now, when were they ever good? Thus is "preserving" them an act of saving them or an act of creating them? Not that I say this to stir the pot, nor do I currently have an opinion of my own, it just makes for interesting reflection. Still without Robinson, and Bob to introduce Robinson, the thoughts wouldn't be there.

I ramble...and yet, perhaps, it's all to say that it apparently takes a village to raise a good chicken. So, apparently, mi pollo es tu pollo.

 

[ChooksChick]

Quote: I love the German site for looking at a zillion images of Marans: http://www.marans-selektion-club.de/

I pore over photos and compare SOP descriptions with images to make it click. There's a button for translation if you like. Another wonderful site for images and comparisons is from the Netherlands: http://www.kippenencyclopedie.nl/php/index.php?title=Hoofdpagina and it's parent page, http://kippen.startpagina.nl/ These can be translated easily if you use Chrome for your browser- well worth it for the ~4000 pics.

While they won't demonstrate the American Standards, each page does demonstrate a lot visually and give you things to consider. They clarifies lots of qualities you might find you have trouble finding images of in our sites, and are well organized and densely packed. There are slightly differing names for some of the breeds, but great breeding info, nonetheless.