Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[BarnGoddess01]

.... I can easily recognize birds hatched here. I recognize certain breedings done by good breeders. There is almost always a genetic imprint associated with a good line of birds.

Walt

That was one of the things we were "tested" on during our information session yesterday. Could we recognize related birds at various ages. It was obvious the fellow presenting the birds definitely knew who was who. At the beginning, there weren't very many of us that got it right but by the end, we had sure learned a lot about what to look at. There was also discussion about what breeds folks were using to "improve" their lines (i.e. using other breeds) and whether or not it was actually an improvement. Fascinating stuff!

 

[CluckyCharms]

That was one of the things we were "tested" on during our information session yesterday. Could we recognize related birds at various ages. It was obvious the fellow presenting the birds definitely knew who was who. At the beginning, there weren't very many of us that got it right but by the end, we had sure learned a lot about what to look at. There was also discussion about what breeds folks were using to "improve" their lines (i.e. using other breeds) and whether or not it was actually an improvement. Fascinating stuff!

May I ask what session you're referring to?? Are there actual classes you can take about this and if so - are they local or are they APA sanctioned or sponsored or....? =) I'd be very interested in something like that for sure!

 

[fowlman01]

I don't have experience in breeding poultry toward a goal either...but I will attempt anything ambitious, even if it's overly ambitious or an ambition that is far-fetched, if it means there is even a 1% chance of success. I won't change who I am to satisfy the minority or the majority. 2 years from now is how long I have to learn everything and anything I can about the breeds I want to focus on, before actually starting in. If that means I'll have one heck of a "to do list" then that's okay. I'm certainly not going to wait 10 years or more until I'm more accomplished or experienced to start in on a rare breed. Time is precious and time is something that nobody can say they have a plenitude of with absolute certainty. Do I have a lot to learn? Absolutely. Am I being naive in thinking I can do this successfully? No, I don't think I am at all. Somewhere, at some point in time, all these breeds were made by people who had never done it before at all, and were successful because they tried something with their chickens that nobody else would. In my situation, this breed already exists, the blueprints of the building have already been drawn - all I have to do is build it. I may end up with a lot of broken huts and kitty-whompus shacks before I end up with the Taj Mahal of chickens...but I'm okay with that. =)

The first thing I would recommend is that you read everything from page one to page 38 in the APA SOP. Page 5 tells you what you need to do to get the Orloff's into the SOP. When you are ready to do that I can help you. You will see that the quickest it can be done if you start today is five years. Keeping chickens is pretty easy. Breeding good chickens is a knack that not everyone has, but can be learned with good research and guidance. Some will excel and some won't, but one of the most important things is....patience! I have been raising chickens, ducks and geese for about 50 years and I'm still learning. I become a little annoyed at the 2-3 year wonders who post on this site cuz they know it all, but I'm still learning. It makes me feel like I should have learned all this that quick.....makes me sad that I am such a poor study and they are so good at it.
Hey! But I knew you were talking about Orloffs, so you have to give me a cookie this time.

Walt

 

[CluckyCharms]

The first thing I would recommend is that you read everything from page one to page 38 in the APA SOP. Page 5 tells you what you need to do to get the Orloff's into the SOP. When you are ready to do that I can help you. You will see that the quickest it can be done if you start today is five years. Keeping chickens is pretty easy. Breeding good chickens is a knack that not everyone has, but can be learned with good research and guidance. Some will excel and some won't, but one of the most important things is....patience! I have been raising chickens, ducks and geese for about 50 years and I'm still learning. I become a little annoyed at the 2-3 year wonders who post on this site cuz they know it all, but I'm still learning. It makes me feel like I should have learned all this that quick.....makes me sad that I am such a poor study and they are so good at it.
Hey! But I knew you were talking about Orloffs, so you have to give me a cookie this time.

Walt

Thank you! I have the book actually, but I've been naughty and I've only been looking at specific parts - didn't read the beginning overview as yet, but now that you mentioned it I definitely will set aside time *today* and read it.

I'm definitely not going to be a 2-3 yr. wonder that's for sure. LOL I think the sort of people you're referring to probably know how to breed chickens but they don't have all the specifics and important aspects such as you do, down to an art form. I believe it was you that said something about how easy it is to be a chicken breeder, but it's difficult to do it with any form of expertise. You didn't word it like that but it was similar (doesn't take much to throw a bunch of chickens together).

I have 2 years to learn about these chickens before I breed them, is what I meant (it's a deal I made with my husband, I have to raise the 6 we have first, for 2 years and if I'm still excited after that we can move and I can have however many I want - plus roos). The learning won't stop after 2 years - just the learning without doing.

I think it will probably take me about 500 years to know everything I want to know about 1 breed even, but since I don't have that much time (or even 50 years) I will be happy with about 30.

*passes you a jam thumbprint cookie since that's the only kind we have right now*

 

[Chris09]

Chris,
I always figured that if I got a pair or trio of birds from someone and mated them together, then they were still that person's line. It would be the following year, when I had several birds to choose from and I made my choices and got my culls out of the way and bred my chosen birds, that only then were they my line.
If you only get a pair/trio, you really don't have much to choose from. So you breed what you have.
Am I wrong in this?

I look at it like this,
It only takes one bad breeder one bad breeding to screw up a good breeders years of good breeding. (even with a trio)

Chris

 

[CluckyCharms]

I look at it like this,
It only takes one bad breeder one bad breeding to screw up a good breeders years of good breeding. (even with a trio)

Chris

x2!!

Exactly what I was trying to say so many times yesterday (on another thread) and I got absolutely nowhere.

I completely agree. I don't see where a bad breeding could happen with a breeding inside a trio that came from excellent lines though - so if you'd care to expound on that I would be very appreciative.

[Edited to add] I thought about what you said regarding "even with a trio"...do you mean breeding that trio and then not knowing which chicks from that breeding were culls and which were not, and keeping the wrong ones to continue your program with...due to being inexperienced or being experienced and not caring (or anything in between)? That makes sense...(to me anyway) but again I'm noob so I don't know for sure.

thanks in advance for any clarification.

[Editing again] The more I think about that the more I think wow. I'm sure that happens all the time. Breeder B buys a trio from Breeder A, and breeds only that trio. But, they hatch a few chicks and one of them is a cull according to Breeder A's standards, but breeder B doesn't realize that (or does, but doesn't care) and places that potential cull from Breeder A's birds into their breeding program. That cull is **not** from the lines of Breeder A, because Breeder A would have selectively culled that particular chick and it would not have been in their breeding program.

Line (lineage) -

1. Lineal descent from an ancestor; ancestry or pedigree.
2. A sequence of species each of which is considered to have evolved from its predecessor: "the chimpanzee and gorilla lineages".

It would stand to reason that Breeder B's chick from Breeder A's trio is no longer Breeder A's line, because there would be no descent from that chick if Breeder A would have hatched it, because it would have been a cull.

I now think that a line stops the moment Breeder A transfers ownership of those birds or hatching eggs to Breeder B.....I think...not sure....I don't know.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
The session was hosted by our local poultry club, The Great Lakes Poultry Association. The information session yesterday was presented by Don Stephenson using his very successful bantam White Rocks. Although this event wasn't specifically ABA/APA sanctioned, there were more copies of the SOP on the tables than I've ever seen before. The folks in this club are pretty serious about poultry; breeding them and showing them, many of them for a LOT of years.

I believe Walt has done similar educational sessions in California. I also know of other APA judges and experienced breeders that will conduct informational/educational sessions. Find out who is in your area and try to organize something. I believe there is something planned for later on this winter in Michigan. I'll make a point of making sure details of that are published here so folks have a chance to attend if they are interested. (It's also a GREAT way to make connections with potential mentors .... )

 

[NYREDS]

I know what I said isn't one of the main discussions when people talk about what happened with the delisting of the Russians, I just found it very coincidental that the Russians (as they were recognized back then) were delisted in 1875, the same year all heck broke loose. My sister was a Russian linguist in the United States Navy all during the 90s, and since I was younger than her, I was interested in what she was doing. She couldn't tell me much, so I decided I'd take a fairly deep look into Russia's history.

To answer your question, nope, I don't have anything to support this theory and yes, it's total speculation, that's why I said "I think" and "my theory" (and I also said my theory could be bs) lol! I really don't think we'll ever know for sure to be honest, what their reasons were. I don't believe it was "lack of breeder interest".

I didn't buy my book via APA, I bought it from e-bay. When I go to the APA site it's usually to read their articles, I'll have to go look again now; thank you for informing me because now I'll know for the next edition. =)

I know all about the grassy knoll, and I really am sorry if I offended you with my conspiracy theory about why I believe the ROs were delisted, that wasn't my intention at all.

[Edited to add] The main reason why I haven't taken the avenue you suggested (yet) is because I'm not sure how to go about it. I've visited the thread here at BYC a few times, but mainly the SRO that we have in the states today is the main bird of discussion on that thread (mainly). I like the SRO a great deal but my interest in getting some is to find a way to bring *back* the old Russian Orloff from the old SOP.

Just to split hairs a little there was never a Russian Orloff in the APA Standard, there was a Russian; no Orloff. They were per Standard description a different bird than the Spangled Russin Orloffs I see at shows. That said, the Spangled Russian Orloffs I do see vary greatly from show to show. Since there's no standard for the breed people seem to be doing what pleases them as far as breeding is concerned.
BTW-you didn't offend me at all. I was just curious as to how many conspiracy theories you subscribed to. :-D

 

[CluckyCharms]

Just to split hairs a little there was never a Russian Orloff in the APA Standard, there was a Russian; no Orloff. They were per Standard description a different bird than the Spangled Russin Orloffs I see at shows. That said, the Spangled Russian Orloffs I do see vary greatly from show to show. Since there's no standard for the breed people seem to be doing what pleases them as far as breeding is concerned.
BTW-you didn't offend me at all. I was just curious as to how many conspiracy theories you subscribed to. :-D

You're not splitting hairs I already said they were listed as Russians, not orloffs They (to me) are a completely different bird than what we see today. I know about the grassy knoll because I had to know about it for a report I did. lol I'm not a conspiracy theorist really, just a thinker and ponderer of possibilities. =]

I'm glad I didn't offend you!

 

[CluckyCharms]

The session was hosted by our local poultry club, The Great Lakes Poultry Association. The information session yesterday was presented by Don Stephenson using his very successful bantam White Rocks. Although this event wasn't specifically ABA/APA sanctioned, there were more copies of the SOP on the tables than I've ever seen before. The folks in this club are pretty serious about poultry; breeding them and showing them, many of them for a LOT of years.

I believe Walt has done similar educational sessions in California. I also know of other APA judges and experienced breeders that will conduct informational/educational sessions. Find out who is in your area and try to organize something. I believe there is something planned for later on this winter in Michigan. I'll make a point of making sure details of that are published here so folks have a chance to attend if they are interested. (It's also a GREAT way to make connections with potential mentors .... )

Thank you for the useful information. I think I'll poke around my state and see if they offer anything like this that is within driving distance. =) I'm glad you had this opportunity, what a fount of information that course must have been...very exciting!