Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

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Since the whole out-crossing debate began with something you posted, I wanted to ask what you meant by out-crossing. Many took it to mean crossing in other breeds, and perhaps that was a misunderstanding.

Haha, I guess I am brave or stupid to even respond to this question on this thread again but here I go.

First of all, I am NOT against a closed breeding population in any way shape or form. I never called anyones inbred birds muts. The goal of a breeder is often to inbreed, line breed, whatever you want to call it (yes I know the difference between the two), but breed birds with known genetics in order to control the genetic diversity because that is the way you end up getting the best offspring. This is why Walt has been so successful with his birds, at this point after 30 years of a closed breeding population he should have far fewer dramatic culls because in the beginning most of the dramatic detrimental genes the birds carry are finally expressed through controlled and planned breeding of relatives to each other and can be culled. Kudos to Walt and all the many many other people that have achieved success in the show ring, that takes a lot of dedication and knowledge of their birds. One of the challenged breeds I took on a few years ago I hatched over 800 birds the first generation and culling was easy because there were so many obvious and glaring faults. With that breed I now still hatch several hundred each generation but the culling is getting more fine tuned and difficult because the 'low hanging fruit' has removed so the smaller details of specific color patterns, type, size, comb etc are harder to identify until they are adults. This is an indication the the genetic diversity is being reduced and the population is becoming more homogeneous genetically with each generation.

To answer your question about out-crossing, again, I could back track and just go with the flow but I still believe, AT TIMES, that out crossing to different breeds might become necessary in certain breeds where quality is difficult or impossible to obtain or traits are nearly absent from that line. Again, this should be carefully controlled and carefully planned and only done when necessary. Never did I suggest just willy nilly cross breeding birds. The majority of my breeds I raise I started with 100+ day old chicks, often of marginal quality, and through hatching mass numbers I make genetic progress. Most of these I have never even brought in new genetics from a different line within the same breed. It is not necessary and I have been able to make great progress with the birds I began with. Partly because many of these breeds are less common so the stock I started with had great variation in quality so the genetic variation form the offspring was great. A couple of the breeds I did supplement my line with blood or genetics from another line of the same breed and variety, but I don't even do this if i don't have to. Why introduce unknown genetics into population when you don't have to. In most cases I am comfortable enough with my stock and the genetic opportunities that exist within my birds I just continue to work with what I have.

My original thought was soundly beat up and pounded into submission by the question I posed. I do believe there are cases when we have to bring in new blood (Minorcas on Andalusians was an example someone else used) or even go the route that Kathy has to just recreate the breed (Delawares) from the beginning. Maybe this is done because quality just can't be found in that breed at all or it is missing valuable characteristics. I tend to lean towards fixing the breeds by whatever means necessary rather than just let them drift away because they have become too difficult to obtain or work with because quality has diminished so dramatically.

So is out-crossing to other breeds encouraged by me? ABSOLUTELY NOT. But on the flip side, am I vehemently opposed to it in times when the breeder feels he has no where else to turn? Not at all. But, to each his own. I am just glad there are enough people passionate enough to post there thoughts and emotions all over this board. If they have as much dedication to preserving the breeds as is indicated by the posts here than then our Heritage breeds should all be in good shape from here on out.

Good luck everyone.
 
Family issues have kept me away of late, but I for one have enjoyed the topic that Bently brought up. I think his misspelling may have come from using a phone or tablet. I have "observed" Bentley's program and have full confidence in what he says.I have seen the offspring from his flock and they have done very well in the shows!
 
Silver Laced Wyandottes could help with Lacing if you know what your doing, which I dont, I know someone who used them on Blue Orpington bantams.
I know of a few that used the Silver Laced Wyandotte Bantam on Blue Orpington Bantams. I am sure it would work on the large fowl as well. Just would need to cull very heavy.
 
Good idea!!!


Thanks Lacy (BTW....I have a friend working on LF Blue Rocks....might need an infusion of Andalusian blood to get the proper lacing....can I have him contact you?)

Sure, they can contact me. No problem.

Bad idea. Your friend would also be introducing slate legs & while lobes. White lobes where they should be red is a tough fix & it's hard enough to keep yellow legs on a Blue Rock as it is. Tell your friend to breed his black & splash birds together for well laced offspring.
Bill is right. I was trying to think of how to respond in regard to those issues but decided to just go ahead and let them contact me. Then I would discuss those issues with them. So, I guess you can send them the word.

Someone mentioned Wyandottes. I believe they have yellow legs too, or white, is that correct? The body type would be closer and the feathers would be looser and hopefully the only real issue would be the rose comb. I don't know though if the silver in the silver laced wyandotte is dominant or not. The thing about the blue coming from the splash and black is that neither the splash nor black is dominant so they mix and make blue (or grey). I'm sure there is someone more knowledgeable about these things than I that can help out with these issues.
 
Walt, I meant my post to be a complement (hope it was taken that way) nothing replaces experience. I truly have a appreciation for those that have already lived it and find myself drawn to them more and more. Thank you and the others for sharing your knowledge with us.
I find myself thinking 70 is only 22 years away! 22 years ago I was not thinking 48 is only 22 years away. Man have things changed.
Ron

There is a ton of combined knowledge here.

It was a good place to give folks a heads up about time. When you go from thinking in terms of 40 years to 70-80 years, the time to do things becomes such that an active individual can accomplish a lot of things, that would seem impossible by 70. It is just a thing that I have noticed. Again it is scary when I now think the Civil War wasn't all that long ago.

Last weekend at the PCBC show in Victorville CA a K White Faced Black Spanish was Champ Med. I haven't seen that in a while. It could have been a bit bigger, but overall looked good. Hopefully they are coming back again here. there were very good ones in the west in the 80-90's.

Walt
 
So, an inquiring mind wants to know how your inbred misfits did this past weekend after the chicken taxi took them so far from home through the tempest.

Champion waterfowl.... East indie, Res Goose- Egyptian,, Champ AOCCL-Dark Cornish hen. BV/RV red pyle moderns and some other waterfowl wins. We did well and were able to load and unload without it raining.....you know what a blessing that is. Most of the rivers here in Sonoma and Napa counties are at flood stage with another storm coming tomorrow. I'm OK where I am.
 
Did that white faced black spanish belong to Bridget Riddle? If so, she won at Reno with him too. He was a very nice looking bird, but like Walt said, a little on the small side. I hope she continues to do well with them.

I am not sure, but it was probably Bridgets....she was there.

w.
 
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