Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[NYREDS]

I remember going to a youth show a couple years ago, and the judge was showing the kids what he was looking for. He came across a bird had some white on his feather. Then he asked, "Do you know how you'd fix this?" and a kid replies, "A black Sharpie!".

I sure hope the kid wasn't serious...

A few years back I saw a father doing just that to a junior bird before a show in Syracuse: right in the show hall-didn't even take it outside. I went over to him & told him his daughter's entire entry could be disqualified for this. He told me it was just a showmanship bird so it really didn't matter. When I put on my coat & went over to judge the junior show he seemed surprised to see me. I made eye contact with him & he took the bird [Black Cochin Bantam] out of the cage & put it back in the box.

 

[Chloe77]

NO offense taken....culls "taste like chicken"

Some ppl don't like eating their birds, but I'm ok with doing it, even if they are heritage.

 

[Chloe77]

With all the talk about faking, I was given this book by a very dear friend. I believe someone referred to this book earlier on this thread. It was written in the early 1900's and is a pretty interesting read, especially considering the time it was written. It was not written to teach people how to cheat or fake their birds, but it was pretty clear what was considered cheating back then. Common things today like painting the hooves of show livestock, trimming their coat to alter their appearance and such was considered cheating. It's been a while since I read it, but from what I remember it seems that from the perspective of the author that that many of the things done today to 'primp and prep' birds for a show were considered very border line back then. It was actually sort of humorous to read in places. So anyway, it's general theme was anything done to the bird (animal) with the intent to alter its natural appearance is 'faking'

I don't know, painting hooves sounds like cheating, but cutting some fur? I'm ok with that.

 

[Pozees]

I don't know, painting hooves sounds like cheating, but cutting some fur? I'm ok with that.

The only show world I have any experience in is dogs, and I remember when I first started showing I was appalled at the way exhibitors would alter their dogs' appearances with grooming. Judges reward this, so people do it. You would be amazed at the change you can make in a dog's outline by "cutting some fur."

 

[ashandvine]

Cattle are altered by piling baby powder on low spots of their back line or trimming fur... dogs are docked and trimmed... maybe birds are the last bastion of 'honest' showing... but based on the amount of altering you are talking about I am guessing not now. I have read about this and discussed it a little in other threads. My small-time opinion is this: if its really a small thing which will only take off a point or two then lose the points and be honest. I am sure someone could make the argument that if its only one or two points why not remove the toe sprig et al... but integrity is something hard to learn and harder to teach. I have heard you all say that no one shows a bird who doesn't want to win. I disagree. I have heard it stated and know I will show to learn and to expose people to the breed I am trying to represent (Russian Orloffs). I have no intention of faking anything other than the smile when they tell me all about my birds.

 

[Marengoite]

So my word of caution when doing this. Chickens often carry cecal worms which can carry the blackhead causing organism Histomonas. While both chickens and turkeys can get blackhead when an outbreak occurs Blackhead is much more detrimental and damaging to the turkeys, and if the turkeys come down with severe blackhead then the high levels of exposure to the blackhead by the chickens can result in the chickens then suffering from blackhead too. However, the biggest possible problem when running turkeys and chickens together is the possible loss of turkeys to blackhead they picked up from being with the chickens.

Just a small work of caution in case people try this. It can and often does work to control Mareks in chickens but watch to make sure you are not causing other problems if the turkeys have value.

Thanks for chiming in, Bentley.

I was wondering the same thing when I read Lacy Blues comment. I suspect Blackhead isn't real prevalent around here. The guy who orders 4-H turkeys for the kids keeps a wide variety of fowl - chickens, Bourbon reds, market turkeys, peafowl, guineas, ducks (when he can keep the coons away from them), and pretty much anything with feathers that piques his interest. They all run together and in close proximity with one another and he's never had problem with blackhead. Most everything he has ranges, though, so they aren't kept in cramped quarters. I wonder if that helps.

 

[NYREDS]

But . . . but . . . If a person cheats at a show by coloring in feathers, shaving side sprigs, etc., and doesn't get caught, aren't they still shooting themselves in the foot by perpetuating those faults in their next generation of birds?

Absolutely. IMO there's no good reason for including a bird with a disqualification, or a serious defect for that matter, in a breeding program. Of course there are many exhibitors who buy & show rather than breed & show so for them I suppose it doesn't matter.

 

[Maven]

I guess it depends on what is classified as a "serious defect" in your breed.

I have coached Dizzy Dean baseball since my youngest son was 5 yrs old. From the first year as T-ballers, I taught the boys that regardless of current philosophies, the game of baseball WAS about winning and that LIFE was about winning. However, we were to do it based on the combined best efforts of every player. We experienced several situations were other coaches "cheated" to try to get an upper hand against us as we were "the team to beat"....since it was T-ball, the umpires overlooked it. Several players (and parents) complained and I explained that regardless of what others did, we would NEVER cheat to win. I hate losing, but in my opinion (please note, MY OPINION) winning by some deceitful practice does not make you a winner, it simply makes you "not caught".

I don't think I could "change" the appearance of one of my birds and feel good about it. I'd rather take the points deduction....

You are a good dad and an honorable man. Your children are very lucky to have you to look up to.

 

[fowlman01]

The only show world I have any experience in is dogs, and I remember when I first started showing I was appalled at the way exhibitors would alter their dogs' appearances with grooming. Judges reward this, so people do it. You would be amazed at the change you can make in a dog's outline by "cutting some fur."

They don't even try to hide their faking. It seems adding color is OK.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

I don't think faking in exhibition poultry is all that common. Most judges know what to look for and these days. In any kind of competition someone will try to get an advantage by doing something against the rules. Some folks just want to cut corners. They will get caught.

Walt