Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[saladin]

I agree. I wonder how often this is the case for many of our standard breeds. Even before the commercial industry really began to develop.
Like rhode island whites for example. Were they ever really that popular? Or did the the breeds like Plymouth rocks, Rhode Island reds, and wyandottes dominate the then commercial industry so much and no one really paid much attention to the minor breeds, like Rhode Island whites, Javas, and Dorkings?
Same can be said of the egg industry with leghorns dominating that from a relatively early time period, were breeds like Campines, Anconas, and Andalusians more or less ignored?
To sum up, Have some "heritage" breeds been struggling for survival for longer than we might have thought? Or maybe I'm just off topic?
I don't intend to be gloomy here, but it's sometimes nice to have the perspective of what we are dealing with. And guess that's really why we're all here!

Many of the so-called heritage breeds are nothing more than composites which could be re-created any day and any time. It is for this reason that I prefer to work on saving the original foundation breeds. The exception to this would be when a composite breed has within it's makeup foundation breeds which have already disappeared.

I have heard the arguement that if we lose a particular composite breed it can't really be recreated because we don't have the exactly bloodlines which were utilized to start with. Personally, I find that arguement ridiculously funny. What was so magical about those particular bloodlines? Nothing. They were chickens plain and simple.

Further, some of these so-called heritage breeds failed because they were not any better than the foundation breeds which went into their makeup to start with.

 

[cubalaya]

i don't know if you were refering to delawares but i would say they were an improvement over their foundation birds. faster growth and extra large brown eggs. obviously they can be recreated as kathy is showing. birds like the lamona being recreated too. when you get to generation f8 , do they look like the standard says they should, and are they all fairly uniform ?

 

[Bentley]

My understanding, about the Delaware breed (which is a later creation than most of the old breeds), is that they were founded for the meat industry and was the choice of broiler birds. They were just coming into popularity when Colonel Sanders appeared with his KFC. The farmers then realized they needed something to grow much quicker, and the Cornish Rock crosses took over. So, the Delaware breed did not have a chance to become as popular as other well known dual purpose breeds.

After that, the decline in interest and the lack of quality breeding led to their near demise.

Just a little historical information about how and why we got the modern meat birds the industry uses today.


http://thechickenstreet.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/is-the-chicken-of-tomorrow-yesterday/

so, essentially, with the demand to fed the US population many of the breeds we talk about on this thread came to a point that they could no longer fill the needs of the growing population. That is where we come in, to preserve them for what they once were intended to be. No that we can ever get them to over take what the industry does, provide low cost animal protein to a hungry world, but we can preserve them for those of us that are able to to raise our own food sources as Americans once were able to do.

 

[Bentley]

The Silver Spangled Hamburgs are another breed I may be able to pick up a breeding pair or trio from Paul Hardy. I am going to call him and see he may trust me with them if I plan to share them with others down the road.

Does anyone have Silver Spangled Hamburgs?

I have a flock of Silver Spangled Hamburgs. I have tried to trace the line back and this is all the information I have. The breeder I got them from had had them for about 20 years in a closed breeding flock and had won Master Breeder with them about 10 years ago. He said he originally them from Forrest Beauford then he worked on them. He believed Forrest had gotten them as Hoffer line (?) but he was not sure about that. Either way, they go back about 30 years in a closed breeding program. They are super Hamburgs as far as I can tell.

 

[7961]

An fyi for those who are interested in the Sussex breed, I copied and pasted the following from a post I saw on Facebook.

The American Sussex Association was brought about by a group of people who have one huge thing in common, "The Love of Sussex chickens". We were organized in 2010 and hope to expand and grow into a very informative place for all who love this great breed of poultry. ASA is dedicated to Improving and Preserving the Sussex breed, for breeders or hobbyists alike. We also hope to promote interest into all the varieties of this great breed.
If you have or would like to have Sussex chickens you should become a member.
You may join the ASA at
http://americansussexbreeders.webs.com/membershipdues.htm

 

[Chris Herzog]

You make me want to go weigh my birds. (I guess I should be doing that anyway). I am the one that had the light Sussex at the Penscola show. And am very interested in the breed. I wish more peeps had them to show. I would love to have something besides my on flock to compare them to.

This was directed at 3Riverschick. I forgot to put the quoat in there. Been a very long time since I posted on here.

I saw your bird at the show. It was a very nice looking bird!!!

Chris

 

[Bentley]

No great pictures, but ......
Some of my birds............

Kathy, with your Delaware project, have you gotten to the point of eliminating the occasional red (New Hamp effect) offspring? With that cross you often will fight the red chicks for a while until you eliminate that recessive trait. I am getting there with mine but those recessive color traits can still spring up from time to time as some birds hide the clues of being carriers well.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

No great pictures, but ......
Some of my birds............





Kathy, how are the emus doing???? Are they laying yet?

 

[cgmccary]

Many of the so-called heritage breeds are nothing more than composites which could be re-created any day and any time. It is for this reason that I prefer to work on saving the original foundation breeds. The exception to this would be when a composite breed has within it's makeup foundation breeds which have already disappeared.

I have heard the arguement that if we lose a particular composite breed it can't really be recreated because we don't have the exactly bloodlines which were utilized to start with. Personally, I find that arguement ridiculously funny. What was so magical about those particular bloodlines? Nothing. They were chickens plain and simple.

Further, some of these so-called heritage breeds failed because they were not any better than the foundation breeds which went into their makeup to start with.

I agree that you could recreate any of the composite breeds as long as you had the foundation or other composite breeds that went to make them. You could even create a composite breed that met the SOP using other breeds (that weren't used originally to make the breed) -- all is possible. I have seen what looked like a Buckeye created in Australia (and not using the same breeds). IMHO, (and it is not an argument, just my very humble opinion), you would have something that met the SOP Buckeye, but many of the things we enjoy about the breed, all those qualities that do not mean anything to most people (their temperament, fondness of being around people, their foraging (mine remind me of my Guineas) & huge apetitites, their overall toughness, the meat itself, its taste & texture -- I guess the same could be said about particular lines as is often discussed as the loss of here in this thread --) all these things would not all be the same. Perhaps, they aren't anyway and I am just referring to the Buckeyes I have on my farm (and they will one day be gone when I ma no longer able to care for them). Again, I am not presenting an argument but just an opinion that there is more to lose letting these breeds die out and recreating them. To re-capture all the qualities of some of these breeds might take longer than some of us have left on Earth. Isn't this what this thread is all about (preserving what we've got)?

 

[Wynette]

I agree that you could recreate any of the composite breeds as long as you had the foundation or other composite breeds that went to make them. You could even create a composite breed that met the SOP using other breeds (that weren't used originally to make the breed) -- all is possible. I have seen what looked like a Buckeye created in Australia (and not using the same breeds). IMHO, (and it is not an argument, just my very humble opinion), you would have something that met the SOP Buckeye, but many of the things we enjoy about the breed, all those qualities that do not mean anything to most people (their temperament, fondness of being around people, their foraging (mine remind me of my Guineas) & huge apetitites, their overall toughness, the meat itself, its taste & texture -- I guess the same could be said about particular lines as is often discussed as the loss of here in this thread --) all these things would not all be the same. Perhaps, they aren't anyway and I am just referring to the Buckeyes I have on my farm (and they will one day be gone when I ma no longer able to care for them). Again, I am not presenting an argument but just an opinion that there is more to lose letting these breeds die out and recreating them. To re-capture all the qualities of some of these breeds might take longer than some of us have left on Earth. Isn't this what this thread is all about (preserving what we've got)?

In my opinion, there is more than one school of thought in this vein - none are wrong (also my opinion, clearly), each has its place. I wholeheartedly agree with the thoughts above, but I also agree with others that may differ. I look at this particular thread as mostly a learning thread, and it's great when discussions of breeding methods and opinions such as this come up. I thoroughly enjoy hearing all sides to an issue, and admittedly, my opinions have been changed on more than one occasion, based on what folks post here.