Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

My original post :

Hi Walt, I need some help. I am sadly confused.

OK, we know one of the breeds used to create the Light Sussex was the Light Brahma. That early elite Light Sussex breeders wrote (circa 1920-30's) to breed Light Sussex the same as the Light Brahma for color.
Books written, 95 to 135 yrs. ago, about breeding Light Brahma seem to me to give breeding advice that will create Light Sussex of the proper color. see Judge Card's book on "Breeding Laws" and this 1877 I.K. Fletch book: The amateur's manual; or, Specific mating of thoroughbred fowls (1877) http://archive.org/details/amateursmanualor00felc . ( Pages 1-16 and 28 thru 32 ) This would seem to confirm that both breeds were then on the same locus, ( eWh? which does not have black stippling on the saddle)
Now it is 2012. I see pics and read books that show Light Brahma with black saddle stippling and that they are based on eb Brown, even tho they are a black and white breed (yes, I see how an eb bird could be black and white). Now it seems, using currently advocated breeding techniques for Light Brahma will result in faulty coloring for Light Sussex ( i.e. black stippling on the saddle, etc.).
What is going on here? Have I made a mistake in my history study?
Have Light Brahma changed locus over the last century?
What do you think of that 1877 Fletch book as regards using the advice Fletch gives for breeding Light Brahma ...for breeding Light Sussex?
Why do Light Brahma have black stippling on the saddle now-a-days?
Could they still be eWh locus like the Light Sussex, yet fashion now decrees they have stippling on the saddle in spite of the fact eWh locus does not usually produce that effect?
I know it's important I understand which breeding method is correct for my Light Sussex or I am going to screw up the color matings.
Thanks so much for your help!
Happy New Year,
Karen
=============================================
New thoughts on the subject above 1/2/13
Hi Walt,
I have been thinking about this. Am reading Van Dort's Colour Genetics" book tonight. I think I may have figured it out. I think it's all about the undercolor. Back around 1900 , reliable authors talk about breeding Light Sussex like Light Brahma. But as we read the Light Brahma lit forward from that point, we start to see the breeders trying to breed the darkest black in the columbian as possible. They start talking about how the different tones of undercolor effects the depth of black color in the top color. I think Light Brahma started out as eWh. But when they started discussing the change in tone of undercolor, I think they inadvertantly switched to eb which gives blue/grey undercolor. While eWh gives pure white undercolor (which is what they had before).
Okay, so we start reading about Light Brahma breeders discussing the amount of "smut" in the undercolor and how the right amount of it creates the darkest black parts in a Columbian bird. But that smut wouldn't even be there in an eWh bird, would it , Walt? So that means they switched from an eWh base to an eb base in the early part of last century?
That's why we can't use modern Light Brahma lit to help us breed Light Sussex? We need to consult the old lit before they switched alleles? Am I anywhere close to right, Walt?
Thanks,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

Hi Walt,
I think this is it. Explained by the always opinionated Judge Robinson:

Standard poultry for exhibition ...
By John Henry Robinson
http://tinyurl.com/9wz4pfs
The Old and New aspects of Light Brahma coloring explained on Pages 98 thru 100 .
Yes??
Karen

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Right! THe light needs to hit a spot on their head to trigger hormone release. ALong with enough light, type of spectrum and consistency of exposure and length of time. I have come to respect the old breeders that could make an early winter layer.

 

[3riverschick]

Right! THe light needs to hit a spot on their head to trigger hormone release. ALong with enough light, type of spectrum and consistency of exposure and length of time. I have come to respect the old breeders that could make an early winter layer.

Hi Arielle,
Do you have a reference for the sentence in bold above?
Thanks,
karen

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Thank you Karen. I have tried sprouted the oats from my current source and the result has been NO spouts. Just wet oats. Good to know TSC might be a source that will sprout. I'll try again!

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Only from what I remember sitting in an intro Poultry class at university of Maine, taught by Dr. Paul ______. The skull is thin to allow penetration. THis was 30 years ago-- maybe information has changed?

He also reported that someone was experimenting with lights: lights on for a short time during night to trigger laying with less use of full time 14-16 hr lighting ( to reduce the energy cost in the big poultry barns.)

 

[maryhysong]

wondering if anyone here has experience with this brooder: http://www.flemingoutdoors.com/4-bulb-infra-red-brooder-lamp.html

I picked one up at a yard sale and all the lights come on but I"m thinking it needs a new thermostat as none of them turn off. Or I am not adjusting it correctly. I could really use some instructions on how to adjust it, thanks.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Only from what I remember sitting in an intro Poultry class at university of Maine, taught by Dr. Paul ______. The skull is thin to allow penetration. THis was 30 years ago-- maybe information has changed?

He also reported that someone was experimenting with lights: lights on for a short time during night to trigger laying with less use of full time 14-16 hr lighting ( to reduce the energy cost in the big poultry barns.)

Hmmm....My understanding is that it is visual, that approximately 80% of chicken brain function is caught up in vision. When we light, we precede the dawn so that the birds have natural sunset and can roost with ease. We write the official sunset time on each Sunday on the calendar, and on each Sunday we count backwards 14 1/2 hours and that is when the lights come on. 14 1/2 hours is the length of our longest day in June. Thus the lights are simulating full on spring/summer. We use energysaver bulbs. The rule I know is one bulb for every ten foot space, which we respect roughly. The timer has to be set every Sunday counting backwards 14 1/2 hours, which allots for the shifting in day length. Thus, the birds are not exposed to mre light. The lights are scheduled to go off at 8:30am because at any point in time at our latitude natural daylight is sufficiant at that hour to compensate for the lights going out. The hens go to roost with the sunset, which is easier for them because it complements their vision and ability to find their roost.

Chickens lay with ascending light, and they moult with descending light. After the Solstice, the longest day, pull the lights we pull the lights so that the birds will begin the gradual descent to their moult. Around Thanksgiving, when everyone who's staying is molted and fresh and all pullets are ssecurely of proper laying age, we pop the lights back on. Start with a 12 hour increment for two weeks and then boost it up to the regular time, for us 14 1/2 hours. Lights go fromm Thanksgiving to the Solstice. A reduction in more than 30 minutes of day light risks triggering a molt. We get calls every year from folk whose chickens have aseasonally stopped laying. More often than not it's because their sense is that the days are getting longer so they no longer wanted to bother with the lights and shut them off. For the humans the days are lengthening. For the birds, their day length just went from 14 or so hours to 12 hours, which is something that happens in autumn--just like the moult. The end result is reduction or cessation of lay. We tell folks that lighting is something you do, or you don't do. If it is done incorrectly, it can actually screw up your season..

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I think you have it right only that my understanding is that the receptors are actually via the brain--of course technically the eye is made of skin and brain . . .

 

[FOGELLY]

wondering if anyone here has experience with this brooder: http://www.flemingoutdoors.com/4-bulb-infra-red-brooder-lamp.html

I picked one up at a yard sale and all the lights come on but I"m thinking it needs a new thermostat as none of them turn off. Or I am not adjusting it correctly. I could really use some instructions on how to adjust it, thanks.

It has a wafer thermostat on the top. Adjust it the same as an incubator with waffer thermostat
Loosen wing nut and back off the adjusting bolt until the lights go off. Then turn the bolt back down until they come on at desired temp. Tighten wing nut to keep it set.

Hope that helps.
Ron