Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Yellow House Farm]

So, reading through the lines, multiple Marans colors are going to be worked on to get enough passable specimens to get them into the SOP, and then we'll watch to see which fall to the wayside and which, if any, ever become fantastic varieties. Fair play, but too bad. Multiple varieties do more to hurt a breed than to help it. I guess one could give the argument that they fool new-comers into thinking that the breed had a wider original base than it did, which tends to give them an impression of validity. It's too bad, because, as I mentioned, the BC and Wheaten are actually unique; these are game colors not present on dual purpose fowl. If they were worked on in great number, they could become show-stoppers, but if color is meant to win, there's a good chance that theyll never be anything but another bird at the show, which they currently are. I guess they currently have going for them that they're in the Continental Class, which is often under-respresented; so at least there's the opportunity to win best of class by default.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

So, reading through the lines, multiple Marans colors are going to be worked on to get enough passable specimens to get them into the SOP, and then we'll watch to see which fall to the wayside and which, if any, ever become fantastic varieties. Fair play, but too bad. Multiple varieties do more to hurt a breed than to help it. I guess one could give the argument that they fool new-comers into thinking that the breed had a wider original base than it did, which tends to give them an impression of validity. It's too bad, because, as I mentioned, the BC and Wheaten are actually unique; these are game colors not present on dual purpose fowl. If they were worked on in great number, they could become show-stoppers, but if color is meant to win, there's a good chance that theyll never be anything but another bird at the show, which they currently are. I guess they currently have going for them that they're in the Continental Class, which is often under-respresented; so at least there's the opportunity to win best of class by default.

I think the reality is most folks serious about Marans are focusing on Black Coppers and Wheatens. Cuckoos also seem to be taken pretty seriously which I agree with because of their connection with the foundation of the breed. Whites and Blue Coppers (although Blue Coppers only just got recognized even in France so they still may be WAY down the road for us) are also likely going to get somewhere but I'm not convinced any of the other varieties will be taking off any time soon. There maybe a breeder or two working on some of the funky "designer" colours but the most folks are working on the "meat and potatoes" of Marans. And, they are very aware that type is the name of the game at the end of the day.

Double edged sword with Marans because we place high emphasis on egg colour which means many of us breed for that which can send SOP right out the door.

 

[Wynette]

I think the reality is most folks serious about Marans are focusing on Black Coppers and Wheatens. Cuckoos also seem to be taken pretty seriously which I agree with because of their connection with the foundation of the breed. Whites and Blue Coppers (although Blue Coppers only just got recognized even in France so they still may be WAY down the road for us) are also likely going to get somewhere but I'm not convinced any of the other varieties will be taking off any time soon. There maybe a breeder or two working on some of the funky "designer" colours but the most folks are working on the "meat and potatoes" of Marans. And, they are very aware that type is the name of the game at the end of the day.

Double edged sword with Marans because we place high emphasis on egg colour which means many of us breed for that which can send SOP right out the door.

DITTO all.

 

[3riverschick]

Double edged sword with Marans because we place high emphasis on egg colour which means many of us breed for that which can send SOP right out the door.
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I doesn't have to tho. If one looks at the superior true French body type like one sees in the Little Peddler strain, it's a body style very conducive to laying the dark egg. If one would concentrate on that body style first, then it would be easier to set the darker egg once on had bred for it.
That cross to Black Langshans back in 2002 really screwed a lot of the breed because it was back at a time when Marans were first starting to be taken seriously and a lot of folk got the birds with Langshan close up in their pedigrees. Then spread the project birds around instead of back crossing to the Marans and sending out the remade Marans instead. Marans were really hard to get back then and the thought was, I think, that the Langshan crosses would be worked on harder than they were. I actually think that might have happened if political disarray hadn't wiped out the then functioning North American Marans Breeders club. In the following years before MOAC and MCC became truly functioning Clubs, there was a lot of willy-nilly, uneducated, impatient breeding.
Then the cross to Pendescnedas(sp?) several years later after the Langshan cross and more project birds entered the gene pool before being remade into Marans again. Meantime, between the crosses, Black Copper had been crossed with Wheaten and a lot of Black Copper who were Wheaten carriers had entered the gene pool before being remade into their pure colors.
A lack of understanding about the uneasy genetic alliance between wild-type, Wheaten, and Black-Tailed Buff led to color-crossings and carriers being sold as the pure colors.
So really all the problems....and I do mean all... in Marans are due to folk insisting on selling project birds and not taking time to truly remake the colors they set out to improve before they spread their project birds across the gene pool. I cannot think of a single Marans problem which is not due to this error in judgment and impatient temperament. It is the main reason I left the breed.
Karen
Yes, and if I ever went back to the breed, I would pay the 600. a pair for Little Peddler strain. It truly is that valuable. Pure imported Marans from a top breeder in France. Winning at high levels on both sides of the pond. And laying the very dark egg. No, not in business with Little Peddler or anything, just a huge fan of proper breed type. It will cost a lot more than 600. to breed USA lines up to Little Peddler breed type.

 

[Wynette]

Anyone wish to help me choose? I've got two Silver Penciled Rock cockerels that I'm needing to make a choice on - pictures (and poll) here, and thanks in advance for your feedback!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...rock-cockerels-help-me-choose-between-these-2

 

[3riverschick]

If anyone is restoring a redwood incubator for your heritage birds, here's a great how-to website:
http://www.heavensentranch.com/redwoodincubators.htm

 

[OSUman]

You can make a crele from Wheaten also.

Lots of great discussion tonight. I don't think you will see crele anytime soon. that requires e+ birds. In Marans, true crele is barred e+. The e+ Golden Salmon (wildtype) are very rare. Crossing was done to Wellsummer and eWh and Black-Tailed Buff Marans. Lots of messed up Golden Salmon out there. A few trying to winnow out true wildtype.
Best,
Karen

To be honest, I was surprised when the Black Copper and Wheatens got accepted.

I recognize the historical relevance of the Cuckoo, but I question whether or not the venture will be successful. Perhaps the Cuckoo will be successful, but then there's the blues. Where there are blues, there are blacks and splash. Add wheatens, and blue wheatens are around the corner. I'm sure the Whites will come down the pipe. When are crele going to show up? When will the shift turn to substance?

Are Marans just slated to become the next 9 variety breed with two of OK quality?

 

[3riverschick]

You can make a crele from Wheaten also.

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Yes, one can. It is one of the big problems in Crele Marans. Much easier to make Crele with eWh, but not proper for the breed.
Then it gets crossed with the few true e+ crele out there and the e+ get even rarer. making it even more difficult to extract
e+ Golden Salmon from the rare e+ crele. More of that impatience I was writing of earlier, sigh. The e+ crele and the e+
Golden Salmon are supposed to support each others existance. Throwing eWh into the mix threatens that.
Karen

 

[Lacy Blues]

Karen, how are your birds doing? Hope they're better.

 

[Wynette]

So really all the problems....and I do mean all... in Marans are due to folk insisting on selling project birds and not taking time to truly remake the colors they set out to improve before they spread their project birds across the gene pool. I cannot think of a single Marans problem which is not due to this error in judgment and impatient temperament. It is the main reason I left the breed.

Yes, and if I ever went back to the breed, I would pay the 600. a pair for Little Peddler strain. It truly is that valuable. Pure imported Marans from a top breeder in France. Winning at high levels on both sides of the pond. And laying the very dark egg. No, not in business with Little Peddler or anything, just a huge fan of proper breed type. It will cost a lot more than 600. to breed USA lines up to Little Peddler breed type.


I agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph above, but I most definitely disagree with your second. I have had this line, as well as Cottage Hill, Fitz Farms (both of their lines), W. Jeane, and Davis (and a few others) in the six years I have been breeding Black Coppers - I have to say the Davis birds are bred right - closest birds to SOP that I have personally seen. And, her original strain most definitely lays a beautiful, very dark egg - the littlepeddler line usually has a matte finish to the egg, while my Davis females always laid a dark egg with a satin finish, as preferred. Just my personal experience. It's a discussion for the Marans threads, though, I think.