Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Fred's Hens]

Bob,

Crossing outside your strain? Yes, now you just have double the amount of "stuff" to deal with, I suppose. But "crossing" to birds that are in your strain, just not in your flock? I'd like to think this might be something that could be a positive step. Your thoughts?

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Fred, I'm definitely not Bob but just to give my opinion on this:

I refused to introduce any new blood into my Langshans. I knew that Forrest's line was out there somewhere. After years of searching, and reduced fertility and some really "eeek" things happening to unhatched embryos, I was finally able to locate a small pocket of his flock.

One breeding and you would be AMAZED at how fast those chicks would hatch out of the eggs, how high the fertility has jumped up and how much more resistant to disease has been. So far, I've had no ill-effects from using the male from the same line. The trick was knowing that the line was truly the same as yours with no different blood being introduced.


Just my two cents.

 

[galanie]

Back to pinched tails: I just want to ask if anyone has run across a hen like one I had. She had a beautiful tail. Perfect Teepee shape from the back, very wide, no pinching or crowding of feathers when viewed from the side. So far, so good. This indicates she has the space. Great.


BUT - she wasn't a good layer. Average maybe. I picked her up and even when she was laying, she had only about 2 fingers worth of space between the pelvic bones. Thus I'm thinking the tails are a good indicator, but physical checking is still called for rather than depend on that.


I understand though that the reason to breed out a pinched tail is what you were talking about, and I'm not arguing with that at all. Just wondering if I'm right or if you guys just think I'm nuts.

I don't remember the name of the author but in the book "Call of the Hen" the author recommends checking your cockerels/cock birds which you plan to use to breed.  Check their spacing as well as the hens.  Find space between the pubic bones and also between those and the end of the breast bone.

I have one rooster which turned out to be my biggest boy... anyway, his first year I was going to sell him but the day I went to the auction, he didn't look as though he felt very well, so I kept him back.  Boy am I glad that happened!  A couple days later I picked him up and checked him all over and he had my full middle finger's width between his pubic bones.  This doesn't sound like anything at all but let me explain... normally on my boys I cannot even get my index finger between them going the skinny way!  He had good spacing between the pubic bones and breast bone too.  So, I kept him.

I'd been trying to find the right hen to put with him and last year I think I found her.  I have a pullet from that cross that  has two full finger widths between the pubic bones and I had to spread my fingers apart a little bit between each to fill the space between her pubic bones and breast bone.  I'm really excited about her and guess another thing... she hasn't even started to lay yet!

So, the author is correct, and though I didn't doubt him, I had no practical experience for the subject.

Thank you! I had no idea that the width between a cockerel's pubic bones mattered as well. I will be looking for this when I start breeding seriously. I have only recently gotten any that I consider worth the trouble. I have had some nice SOP birds in the past but aside from looking nice, they were duds as far as laying. They looked wonderful. Oh my God they looked perfect. But they were all examples of why you don't breed for looks alone. Now I have some I have hopes are going to be what I've been looking for. The type and worth the extra effort.

I do have that book on a bookmark in Cornell Free Library but obviously haven't read enough of it! There's so many good old books there, and I don't think to read them all cover to cover often enough.

THIS is why I ask the things I do. I know that most of the time such statements and questions I ask sound kind of dumb, but I do get gems from them enough that it's worth sounding silly to me.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Fred, I'm definitely not Bob but just to give my opinion on this:

I refused to introduce any new blood into my Langshans. I knew that Forrest's line was out there somewhere. After years of searching, and reduced fertility and some really "eeek" things happening to unhatched embryos, I was finally able to locate a small pocket of his flock.

One breeding and you would be AMAZED at how fast those chicks would hatch out of the eggs, how high the fertility has jumped up and how much more resistant to disease has been. So far, I've had no ill-effects from using the male from the same line. The trick was knowing that the line was truly the same as yours with no different blood being introduced.


Just my two cents.

None of us are Bob.

The good Lord broke the mold after him, no doubt. LOL

This is what I'm saying. Sometimes, we have such a small group and we push what we have, as far as we can. Then, through patience and some good fortune and just plain being open to the possibility, you come across someone with your line. In swapping conversation and photos, you recognize the family resemblance, but also see you've got "stuff" that can help them, perhaps, but they sure as heck have stuff that can help your little group of the family tree. Thanks rodriguezpoultry.

 

[bnjrob]

As a generality, do standard bred cocks put on much more weight after they turn a year old?

Just weighed our oldest, who is just now a year, and while he looks big, he is 3 lb under SOP weight. From what I understand, many Javas are smaller than they should be, but I was wondering if I can expect him to add on any more weight or if we'll just have to keep working harder to get the size up to where it should be in the offspring.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

None of us are Bob.

The good Lord broke the mold after him, no doubt. LOL

This is what I'm saying. Sometimes, we have such a small group and we push what we have, as far as we can. Then, through patience and some good fortune and just plain being open to the possibility, you come across someone with your line. In swapping conversation and photos, you recognize the family resemblance, but also see you've got "stuff" that can help them, perhaps, but they sure as heck have stuff that can help your little group of the family tree. Thanks rodriguezpoultry.

I can't tell you how hard and long the search was. It just happened that I came across a photo of a bird that had been shown recently. I recognized the line instantly and wanted to know who had shown the bird. Tracked that person down and they said they got the bird from another person. Eventually found the guy was only 2-3 hours away! You BET I made a trip down there! I made an 8 hour trip for a 20 minute buying session for some bantams from the same line, like I wasn't going to make a 3 hour trip for a bird that would help my entire standard bird flock?! ha!

I'm just glad that the Langshan community is very open about who they buy birds from and how to get ahold of them. If I hadn't been able to get the information from them, I am sure I would have screwed up the entire line for at least 10 years by adding another bloodline. Anything is better than allowing the line to die, but to keep it pure is something I want to continue to do.




That being said, I have a question. I have heard talk of "stress feathers" and how these feathers come about when a bird is under stress. It is usually seen in black or white birds and presents as white tipping. I've seen it before in some of my birds, here and there, but nothing quite to the extent of this. This is presenting on my standard birds. Haven't seen it before other than a small bit on a spare feather or two. Any ideas?

 

[Arielle]

Quote: If I had a bird that could forage far and wide and not cost me much in feed money I would totally accept golf balls everyday, especially if the girls made good use of a nesting box everyday , I"m not keen about hunting down eggs.

I do wonder though how this breed was developed because to lay every day eats up a lot of calcium per egg. I would think their original territory had lots of calcium available. If anyone has any thought on that idea, would love to hear from you.

I love my tiny SSH, not quite bantam size. AND though he was slow to mature, he knocked a few roosters off their pedistals. THen a few young roosters kicked his bu--, and now he keeps to himself with a few girls. He is one tough bird with a lot of heart.

I've been following this conversation with interest. Arielle, I got my SSHs from MMcM hatchery too. Here are some pictures of them. While they are the smallest birds in my flock, they are still a decent sized bird. I took pictures of them near other birds in the flock so you can have a size reference.

Wyandotte, BO and EE


BO





EE








That BO rooster is pretty massive (ignore the box - I was prepping some photos for CSU

)

I haven't weighed them, I'll probably do that this weekend sometime, But I'm guessing 2-3# or so. The eggs they lay run 1.4-1.6oz each with a VERY occasional 1.7 thrown in. They do indeed lay every day. Since their eggs are so much smaller than the eggs of my brown egg layers, I've decided to let them 'earn their keep' by providing extra protein for the rest of the flock. I mix all of their eggs -shell and all - back into the day's ration of FF each day.

Marengoite - how large are your birds in comparison to these of mine? I'm just wondering if mine are what you consider 'very small' for the breed.


ETA - and boy HOWDY - do they forage for all they are worth!
My rooster is only about the size of your hens. I have a couple of his half-bred daughters and they lay a light cream egg that is med size due to strong egg laying on the mother's side.

I made pickled eggs today for the first time and while I was peeling eggs I was thinking that golfball sized eggs would be PERFECT. So it' got me thinking about SSH again. OTherwise the eggs from my speckled sussex would be good--medium eggs everyday.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Thank you! I had no idea that the width between a cockerel's pubic bones mattered as well. I will be looking for this when I start breeding seriously. I have only recently gotten any that I consider worth the trouble. I have had some nice SOP birds in the past but aside from looking nice, they were duds as far as laying. They looked wonderful. Oh my God they looked perfect. But they were all examples of why you don't breed for looks alone. Now I have some I have hopes are going to be what I've been looking for. The type and worth the extra effort.

I do have that book on a bookmark in Cornell Free Library but obviously haven't read enough of it! There's so many good old books there, and I don't think to read them all cover to cover often enough.

THIS is why I ask the things I do. I know that most of the time such statements and questions I ask sound kind of dumb, but I do get gems from them enough that it's worth sounding silly to me.

There are no dumb or silly questions when you're trying to learn. Heck, if others didn't ask questions before I got a chance to pose them, I'd be asking a lot more.

I like to have a book in my hand rather than on the computer. I just can't stand to look at a computer screen that long and I can't bookmark the page and it just seems more overwhelming to me that way. A book is something that in my opinion, cannot be replaced. It's really nice that they're online now so hopefully I can get some of them printed out for my own use.

 

[Marengoite]

Quote: Maven,

Here's a pullet next to my Buckeye roo and some flock pictures. Barred rock cockerel is hatchery stock just so no one complains about how skinny he is.


















And yes, they do have a yellow cast to the hackles.Is that from the feed?

 

[galanie]

Thank you! I had no idea that the width between a cockerel's pubic bones mattered as well. I will be looking for this when I start breeding seriously. I have only recently gotten any that I consider worth the trouble. I have had some nice SOP birds in the past but aside from looking nice, they were duds as far as laying. They looked wonderful. Oh my God they looked perfect. But they were all examples of why you don't breed for looks alone. Now I have some I have hopes are going to be what I've been looking for. The type and worth the extra effort.


I do have that book on a bookmark in Cornell Free Library but obviously haven't read enough of it! There's so many good old books there, and I don't think to read them all cover to cover often enough.


THIS is why I ask the things I do. I know that most of the time such statements and questions I ask sound kind of dumb, but I do get gems from them enough that it's worth sounding silly to me.

There are no dumb or silly questions when you're trying to learn.  Heck, if others didn't ask questions before I got a chance to pose them, I'd be asking a lot more.

I like to have a book in my hand rather than on the computer.  I just can't stand to look at a computer screen that long and I can't bookmark the page and it just seems more overwhelming to me that way.  A book is something that in my opinion, cannot  be replaced.  It's really nice that they're online now so hopefully I can get some of them printed out for my own use.

I agree with you on books. I did have a kindle and was able to put those books on it. Then I lost it and haven't replaced it yet. They sure beat printing out all that. But only the black/white ones. The new color ones defeat the "electronic print" purpose of the thing and being able to see it in any kind of lighting.