Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Lacy Blues]

Hi Al,
Thank you so much for all your help and advice. I just didn't study anything about hens hacthing eggs. So I kinda feel lost in all this. Ok, so 1 chick was hatched early on 2/21. 2 chicks were hatched early on 2/22. So, as you say, there is time. I have the waterer in there and a trough feeder. Plus the grit dispenser. Have the adult feed, water and grit placed high enough the chicks can't reach them.
Patience is a virtue, sigh.
Best,
Karen

She will take that food and feed it to her chicks... even if it is in pelleted form. She'll break it up for them. I've seen it happen. It's best to just feed chick starter to the hen as well.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote: At a show I was at last weekend most of the people buying chickens wanted off the wall weard colors non H or Rare Standard Breed bird. If you have a Blue Something they sell. The point that my wife makes when we where sectary is they want something from a picture from a Catalog or a Hatchery bulletin. Those are most of the time Stand rd Breed or Standard of Perfection pictures that they use of the perfect bird. In these colors being so rare and so very difficult to breed for color they are nearly non out there. In these days good breeders who know how to breed for color and I mean super star breeders dont fool with them. I have a Friend who we have been trying to find some one who has a Partridge colored bird. Every time we kick around the others who have this color pattern they are either to small in size or color is off. Heck we come to a conclusion of taking one of my White Rock males and mate it to two of his Partridge hens and then mate the best males back to these hens for three years to try to get decent type on them. We are hoping maybe some where in Canada may be a sleeper cell of birds. You never know. I talked to a top large fowl judge last weekend and he says is something. Many of these breeds are just so breed down that when you get some birds and then have a judge talk to you about what you have you get the facts of life on rare chickens. I think sometimes if you have a rare breed or color pattern and you can get them to the level of 93 points out of 100 which is not to good you are lucky. You may have good color but short backs and poor tales or they may have good type and color but are small. The reason for this is someone down the road crossed bantams onto the large fowl to improve the color ect.

Now Fred on the White Rocks I did not hear that Jeff was getting out of large fowl white rocks. My White Rocks are from his dad Bill about 40 or 50 years ago. I do have two problems with them and you can decide if they are bad or not. First they are not big enough for to days standards. Now I say to days standards when judged as big is better. My males and females are about 1 to 1 1/2 pounds over standard weight. That's as large as I can get this strain with out loosing two important traits that I have breed for. One is feather quality no flullyness, or bunny tails which I had to start with the other trait is egg production. They are not putting out eggs like they did say 8 years ago which was a lot but still better than what I started 20 years ago.

So for a all around tight feathered pretty bird on the ground to look at with good flesh proprieties and egg production they are excellent. They have good rock type on the females. On the Ckls their tails are about 5 degrees lower than Standard calls for but what kind of fault would you put on that as a ckl. a point ma be. Now as a cock bird when they molt at 18 months of age most of them are about 35 degrees in the lift which should make every buddy happy. There is another fad or trend and that is more lift up to say 45 degrees. I don't know if the judges started this or the exhibitors or both. Many exhibitors who want to win points breed which will win so if that is what the judges want they will do it. I tell new people you have to decide if you breed to the standard or breed for what wins at shows. Many of you dont breed for judges so dont pay any attention what I am writing about here but its a fact you just have to understand when you go out looking for rare breeds.

In regards to the geese issue I thought the standard went more to the orange color as that is why one guy who had the best flock I ever saw gave them up. Common sense tells you that where they came from in Europe they are more of a dull pinkness color like the one I saw last weekend. I was socked when I saw this goose as most of the geese or flocks have Emden colored feet and bills which is what I think the standard calls for. Again you got to decide do you breed for the pink color or the orange color. I think if you go to the pinkisk color you will breed more towards the traits that where brought over here and if you breed to the Orange color you are going to pull up the White Emden traits that where used to make this new in proved goose 20 or 30 years ago. I like the pictures of your geese you posted.

Fred, I think I have you on a list for chicks for these white rocks from last years. I will hatch ever one I can and ship out to those who want them. I dont know if I will have enough for the demand. I do not plan to save any for myself. I have a guy who lives about 30 miles from me with about 15 of them so I can always get some eggs or hatch some for folks next year and there after if they want some. Also, I hope to have two or three people going with this old strain and they can help the beginners. Its raining today bad so I will try to take pictures of the two males and pullet tomorrow to show you there type.

The incubator is running about a half a degree over normal I hate to even fool with it. By turning this thing off it re programed itself back to normal and for me that was a blessing. These GQF incubators are good for chickens. I hope to hatch every chick I can to help folks get started. If you know anyone who wants Rhode Island Red Mohawk Bantam I have five females and my best ckl of the year in a mating. I can share eggs or started chicks till about May. Once it gets real hot down her over 85 degrees the post office tells me its over and can not except the boxes for shipping.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Bob, I honestly dislike a White Rock that goes over the standard. If I wanted White Giants? That's what I'd get.
No offense to those who keep and show large White Rocks, it's just that such aren't my cup of tea.

I don't personally show. Too far down the road for that. However, I mentor lots of younger people and perhaps they will, one day, that'll be up to them.

 

[1MrsMagoo]

"I am really glad this conversation about the Pomeranians has come up. Many of us newer breeders, all armed with the latest copies of the SOP, are sitting around scratching our collective heads about the bill/feet/shank coloration. When I got my original pair I thought the pink was the standard for this breed. Then I got my SOP and read the reddish-orange thing and was totally confused. It is bad enough trying to sort out body types and markings, but the uncertainty about this critical point has been a real sticking point".







The bill of a Pom in the SOP is: Reddish pink or deep flesh color...... Feet: orange red to reddish PINK. That should cover most Poms I have seen. The biggest problems with Poms is that a lot are double lobed and they should be single lobed.

Walt

Walt...as to the lobe. Does it have to hang in the direct center to be considered single? If they have one, but it is located more to one side or the other, are they considered a lopsided dual? Somebody told me this, but I wasn't sure and had no one to ask.
A couple of my females have a single lobe that hangs directly in the center, while most of the males have a single lobe that hangs to one side or the other. This is one of my ganders with the lobe I am referring to.


In this photo you can see the lobe of my mature female. This looks like two at the top, but if you inspect it at the bottom, their is no division: It is one single lobe.



If you could clarify this it would be immensely helpful to a great many of us just beginning with this breed.
Thanks!

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Hi Al,
Thank you so much for all your help and advice. I just didn't study anything about hens hatching eggs. So I kinda feel lost in all this. Ok, so 1 chick was hatched early on 2/21. 2 chicks were hatched early on 2/22. So, as you say, there is time. I have the waterer in there and a trough feeder. Plus the grit dispenser. Have the adult feed, water and grit placed high enough the chicks can't reach them.
Patience is a virtue, sigh.
Best,
Karen

Don't you worry, Karen! When Broody Mama is ready for those chicks to eat, the food will be flying, literally. She'll have every bit out of that higher feeder and on the floor for her babies to scratch in. And she may even be punting those chicks clear across the coop as she teaches them to scratch and they don't figure out quickly enough how to stay out of her way. I agree with the earlier advice you were given, best to ONLY keep chick food around right now because Mama will feed them anything and everything she can find. You will also be surprised how high those chicks can jump within just a few days. If Mama says the food is up high, they'll be in it!

 

[1MrsMagoo]

In regards to the geese issue I thought the standard went more to the orange color as that is why one guy who had the best flock I ever saw gave them up. Common sense tells you that where they came from in Europe they are more of a dull pinkness color like the one I saw last weekend. I was socked when I saw this goose as most of the geese or flocks have Emden colored feet and bills which is what I think the standard calls for. Again you got to decide do you breed for the pink color or the orange color. I think if you go to the pinkisk color you will breed more towards the traits that where brought over here and if you breed to the Orange color you are going to pull up the White Emden traits that where used to make this new in proved goose 20 or 30 years ago. I like the pictures of your geese you posted.

Thanks Robert. It is so difficult to find the Pomeranians, especially the Buff, in any sort of quality (not oversized, not dual lobed, no exposed keel, not completely orange bill/legs/feet). I really have fallen in love with this breed and am aiming more toward a preservation flock, but do want to breed toward the SOP: Clean up their markings, have good body types and correct size/weight, and decent bill, leg, foot coloration. It just makes sense to me that if I have the breed and want to preserve it, a person should be able to look at them and know without question what they are.
Even if I never show one bird, I am okay with just contributing to preserving the breed and color.

 

[fowlman01]

Walt...as to the lobe. Does it have to hang in the direct center to be considered single? If they have one, but it is located more to one side or the other, are they considered a lopsided dual? Somebody told me this, but I wasn't sure and had no one to ask.
A couple of my females have a single lobe that hangs directly in the center, while most of the males have a single lobe that hangs to one side or the other. This is one of my ganders with the lobe I am referring to.


In this photo you can see the lobe of my mature female. This looks like two at the top, but if you inspect it at the bottom, their is no division: It is one single lobe.



If you could clarify this it would be immensely helpful to a great many of us just beginning with this breed.
Thanks!

The lobe should be in the center and not look thin like the one pictured in the first pic. The way that looks makes me think the bird is underweight. Males should have nice tight underlines....females too, but sometimes when laying they look a bit baggy. You should not have anything that looks like a keel.

Walt

 

[TomNY]

At a show I was at last weekend most of the people buying chickens wanted off the wall weard colors non H or Rare Standard Breed bird. If you have a Blue Something they sell. The point that my wife makes when we where sectary is they want something from a picture from a Catalog or a Hatchery bulletin. Those are most of the time Stand rd Breed or Standard of Perfection pictures that they use of the perfect bird. In these colors being so rare and so very difficult to breed for color they are nearly non out there. In these days good breeders who know how to breed for color and I mean super star breeders dont fool with them. I have a Friend who we have been trying to find some one who has a Partridge colored bird. Every time we kick around the others who have this color pattern they are either to small in size or color is off. Heck we come to a conclusion of taking one of my White Rock males and mate it to two of his Partridge hens and then mate the best males back to these hens for three years to try to get decent type on them. We are hoping maybe some where in Canada may be a sleeper cell of birds. You never know. I talked to a top large fowl judge last weekend and he says is something. Many of these breeds are just so breed down that when you get some birds and then have a judge talk to you about what you have you get the facts of life on rare chickens. I think sometimes if you have a rare breed or color pattern and you can get them to the level of 93 points out of 100 which is not to good you are lucky. You may have good color but short backs and poor tales or they may have good type and color but are small. The reason for this is someone down the road crossed bantams onto the large fowl to improve the color ect.

Now Fred on the White Rocks I did not hear that Jeff was getting out of large fowl white rocks. My White Rocks are from his dad Bill about 40 or 50 years ago. I do have two problems with them and you can decide if they are bad or not. First they are not big enough for to days standards. Now I say to days standards when judged as big is better. My males and females are about 1 to 1 1/2 pounds over standard weight. That's as large as I can get this strain with out loosing two important traits that I have breed for. One is feather quality no flullyness, or bunny tails which I had to start with the other trait is egg production. They are not putting out eggs like they did say 8 years ago which was a lot but still better than what I started 20 years ago.

So for a all around tight feathered pretty bird on the ground to look at with good flesh proprieties and egg production they are excellent. They have good rock type on the females. On the Ckls their tails are about 5 degrees lower than Standard calls for but what kind of fault would you put on that as a ckl. a point ma be. Now as a cock bird when they molt at 18 months of age most of them are about 35 degrees in the lift which should make every buddy happy. There is another fad or trend and that is more lift up to say 45 degrees. I don't know if the judges started this or the exhibitors or both. Many exhibitors who want to win points breed which will win so if that is what the judges want they will do it. I tell new people you have to decide if you breed to the standard or breed for what wins at shows. Many of you dont breed for judges so dont pay any attention what I am writing about here but its a fact you just have to understand when you go out looking for rare breeds.

In regards to the geese issue I thought the standard went more to the orange color as that is why one guy who had the best flock I ever saw gave them up. Common sense tells you that where they came from in Europe they are more of a dull pinkness color like the one I saw last weekend. I was socked when I saw this goose as most of the geese or flocks have Emden colored feet and bills which is what I think the standard calls for. Again you got to decide do you breed for the pink color or the orange color. I think if you go to the pinkisk color you will breed more towards the traits that where brought over here and if you breed to the Orange color you are going to pull up the White Emden traits that where used to make this new in proved goose 20 or 30 years ago. I like the pictures of your geese you posted.

Fred, I think I have you on a list for chicks for these white rocks from last years. I will hatch ever one I can and ship out to those who want them. I dont know if I will have enough for the demand. I do not plan to save any for myself. I have a guy who lives about 30 miles from me with about 15 of them so I can always get some eggs or hatch some for folks next year and there after if they want some. Also, I hope to have two or three people going with this old strain and they can help the beginners. Its raining today bad so I will try to take pictures of the two males and pullet tomorrow to show you there type.

The incubator is running about a half a degree over normal I hate to even fool with it. By turning this thing off it re programed itself back to normal and for me that was a blessing. These GQF incubators are good for chickens. I hope to hatch every chick I can to help folks get started. If you know anyone who wants Rhode Island Red Mohawk Bantam I have five females and my best ckl of the year in a mating. I can share eggs or started chicks till about May. Once it gets real hot down her over 85 degrees the post office tells me its over and can not except the boxes for shipping.

Robert Powell is still winning with his line of Partridge Rocks. I believe he is the only Grand Master Exhibitor with Partridge Rocks. Tom

 

[fowlman01]

Robert Powell is still winning with his line of Partridge Rocks. I believe he is the only Grand Master Exhibitor with Partridge Rocks. Tom

Robert Powell has good birds.

w.

 

[1MrsMagoo]

The lobe should be in the center and not look thin like the one pictured in the first pic. The way that looks makes me think the bird is underweight. Males should have nice tight underlines....females too, but sometimes when laying they look a bit baggy. You should not have anything that looks like a keel.

Walt

Thanks Walt. That helps a lot!
These were take during breeding season, so the lobe on the female gets fairly large for a little while, but does slim back down the rest of the year (the males also become more pronounced). Strangely, prior to her first breeding season she appeared to have two lobes, but afterward, they became this one centered one. Airling "Butch" Gunderson told a friend of mine that this will happen sometimes with first year females, which means it is harder to cull them early.

Out of my 8 ganders, this one is the tallest and is a little light at about 15.5 pounds. I have a couple that are much fuller bodied, but a bit shorter than him and weigh right around 17.