Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Lacy Blues]

Furthermore, it still isn't sinking in for me what the "K" on the cage card means. I think I know, young male. But it's just a letter meant to express something. Why be so dang haughty if folks use the wrong words? We certainly aren't going to encourage folks to take the fancy seriously by humiliating them at the door and making them feel like idiots.

Yeah, yeah, crawling back under my cold Canadian rock ....

On the coop card you have " C ", "H", "K", and "P"

"Cock", "Hen", "Cockerel", and "Pullet." It lets the judge know right off what age group your bird belongs in.

I don't think anybody is haughty or trying to humiliate anyone or make them feel like they're an idiot. In the world of show poultry, that is the language used... just like in the dog world, the ***** word is something I never ever use. Not because I'm not in the dog world but just because I don't like the sound of it but if I was to enter the dog world, I imagine that if I was to call my female dog a female dog, I'd get some pretty strange looks. So, if you want to fit into the show poultry world, you call your rooster a cock bird. I've never experienced any attitudes from those who have been breeding/showing their birds longer than I have. In fact, when I first started, I probably used the term "rooster" I don't really remember. I think if I had received any response to it, I would have remembered that.

So, you don't have to live under your rock, just realize that no one is trying to isolate you for the words you use.

 

[fowlman01]

Furthermore, it still isn't sinking in for me what the "K" on the cage card means. I think I know, young male. But it's just a letter meant to express something. Why be so dang haughty if folks use the wrong words? We certainly aren't going to encourage folks to take the fancy seriously by humiliating them at the door and making them feel like idiots.

Yeah, yeah, crawling back under my cold Canadian rock ....

I don't have a problem with rooster....I have a problem with "roo". The "K" is cockerel, because "C" is cock. I have never heard of anyone being humiliated in person if they used the wrong terms. At shows they use C,H,K,P. for ducks/geese.....it should be Old drake, Old duck, young drake, young duck/old gander, old goose, young gander, young goose....but the terminology is consistent in the poultry fancy. The terminology here is not.

In any hobby or pastime that people are passionate about, you will find a certain number of folks who will be annoyed when newbies use incorrect terms.....it's just the way it is. It is certainly not a reason to be put off. I would want to use the correct terminology ....but that is just me I guess. I don't care that much what terms a person uses and only posted about it because it is a bit of an irritation at times....and only when it is coming from a "know it all". I don't berate newbies for using terms that annoy me.

Walt

 

[BGMatt]

What Walt said.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I have to say, I think the prejudice against the term "rooster" is terribly snobby. "Rooster" has been around forever. All my egg customers refer to the boys as "roosters". The general public knows male chickens are roosters. Roosters are the ones that crow in the morning and make all the noise. Only serious breeders refer to the older males as cock birds (as I've learned.) In my opinion, we aren't doing ourselves any favours by cramming that distinction down the newbies' throat.

Hmmm....this isn't actually true, though. Rooster, actually hasn't been around forever as a term. "Cock" is the term, derived from the French coq and has been the term for hundreds of years. It is steeped in poultry culture that literally predates English as a language. Rooster is a relatively new term that has never been part of the poultryman's vocabulary. That's OK; it's just the history of language, especially the language of poultry breeding, the jargon of the specialization.

It is not "snobby" for a domain to have a jargon; all domains do, whether we're discussing poultry breeding, micro-biology, theology, or literary criticism. Domains develop jargon in order to express in the most succinct way possible exact meaning. The relatively new term "rooster", as was pointed out, expresses only gender whereas the correct terms, "cock" and "cockerel", express specifics about gender as well as age, and it is actually the specifics of age that are so frequently important when discussing the bird in question. It is, however, common for neophytes to undervalue the jargon of a field they wish to join, but that has more to do with their inexperience than with the value of the jargon. As they become more steeped in the culture they naturally end up adopting the proper terms of the field in order to communicate most clearly.

It's not at all a problem, or point of shame, to have to learn the various terms; indeed, it's part of a healthy initiation. I certainly had to learn. It was not snobbish of my mentors to teach me. I am not a snob for passing it along and schooling newcomers in the correct way to talk about chickens.

Food for thought, lots of people raise chickens, relatively few people raise good chickens. The same could be said about the elements of so many fields. The trick is not debasing the masters who do things well; the trick is in becoming a master. Adopting proper jargon is also part of adopting the correct mentality to become a master. Although there are exceptions to all rules, as a whole, be it in this field or any other specialization, the very best tend to exhibit a firm mastery of content knowledge, language, and practice--the building blocks of a field. Generally, one becomes a master by submitting to the building blocks of the field, not by attempting to topple them to suit one's own pace.

Please do not misread this as a veiled way of my expressing offense at the use of correct poultry breeding jargon being called "snobbish", as I stated above, it's perfectly normal, if inaccurate strictly speaking. Just keep filing away the proper terms and start putting them to use. It's simply the learning of a language.

However, I do need to address certain allusions to "other" spaces where harsh criticism of the term "roo" is encountered, and, for the life of me, I don't remember it occurring here. Still, where I have encountered it, it has been exceedingly inappropriate. On one space, in particular, with which I am familiar, the culprits are actually just silly with rather pronounced Napoleon complexes. I'm actually not exaggerating, I know one of the culprits well enough and he's all hot air, naught but. Moreover, some of the rudest folks who jump on the incorrect use of jargon don't actually breed anything and are not known for their strong breeding practices. The sad or, rather, difficult thing is that the neophytes don't actually know this and falsely ascribe to them more authority than they deserve. Then again, some of them are actually good breeders; they just lack social skills.

At no point, though, does this devalue the jargon or render it obsolete or ineffectual. It just means that some people are rude, we thicken our skin, or laugh them off for being twits, and then continue on learning the discipline of the specialty--its knowledge, language, and practice.

Best,

YHF

 

[3riverschick]

Yeah, Great post, Yellow House Farm!
Ovation, Ovation!
Karen

 

[NYREDS]

Hmmm....this isn't actually true, though. Rooster, actually hasn't been around forever as a term. "Cock" is the term, derived from the French coq and has been the term for hundreds of years. It is steeped in poultry culture that literally predates English as a language. Rooster is a relatively new term that has never been part of the poultryman's vocabulary. That's OK; it's just the history of language, especially the language of poultry breeding, the jargon of the specialization.

It is not "snobby" for a domain to have a jargon; all domains do, whether we're discussing poultry breeding, micro-biology, theology, or literary criticism. Domains develop jargon in order to express in the most succinct way possible exact meaning. The relatively new term "rooster", as was pointed out, expresses only gender whereas the correct terms, "cock" and "cockerel", express specifics about gender as well as age, and it is actually the specifics of age that are so frequently important when discussing the bird in question. It is, however, common for neophytes to undervalue the jargon of a field they wish to join, but that has more to do with their inexperience than with the value of the jargon. As they become more steeped in the culture they naturally end up adopting the proper terms of the field in order to communicate most clearly.

It's not at all a problem, or point of shame, to have to learn the various terms; indeed, it's part of a healthy initiation. I certainly had to learn. It was not snobbish of my mentors to teach me. I am not a snob for passing it along and schooling newcomers in the correct way to talk about chickens.

Food for thought, lots of people raise chickens, relatively few people raise good chickens. The same could be said about the elements of so many fields. The trick is not debasing the masters who do things well; the trick is in becoming a master. Adopting proper jargon is also part of adopting the correct mentality to become a master. Although there are exceptions to all rules, as a whole, be it in this field or any other specialization, the very best tend to exhibit a firm mastery of content knowledge, language, and practice--the building blocks of a field. Generally, one becomes a master by submitting to the building blocks of the field, not by attempting to topple them to suit one's own pace.

Please do not misread this as a veiled way of my expressing offense at the use of correct poultry breeding jargon being called "snobbish", as I stated above, it's perfectly normal, if inaccurate strictly speaking. Just keep filing away the proper terms and start putting them to use. It's simply the learning of a language.

However, I do need to address certain allusions to "other" spaces where harsh criticism of the term "roo" is encountered, and, for the life of me, I don't remember it occurring here. Still, where I have encountered it, it has been exceedingly inappropriate. On one space, in particular, with which I am familiar, the culprits are actually just silly with rather pronounced Napoleon complexes. I'm actually not exaggerating, I know one of the culprits well enough and he's all hot air, naught but. Moreover, some of the rudest folks who jump on the incorrect use of jargon don't actually breed anything and are not known for their strong breeding practices. The sad or, rather, difficult thing is that the neophytes don't actually know this and falsely ascribe to them more authority than they deserve. Then again, some of them are actually good breeders; they just lack social skills.

At no point, though, does this devalue the jargon or render it obsolete or ineffectual. It just means that some people are rude, we thicken our skin, or laugh them off for being twits, and then continue on learning the discipline of the specialty--its knowledge, language, and practice.

Best,

YHF

I think I remember a cock crowing twice before Peter denied Jesus-book of Mark if you'd like to look it up. That was quite awhile ago.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

It is not "snobby" for a domain to have a jargon; all domains do, whether we're discussing poultry breeding, micro-biology, theology, or literary criticism.

And you make my point for me. The online world also has developed a jargon. We use terms like roo and 'bator and lockdown. It doesn't mean we are any less serious about raising poultry OR any less good at it, quite frankly. But there is NO question, we are judged for using those terms as is being clearly demonstrated here. That is the main point I am trying to make.

(NOT a new word: "Rooster" -- origin 1606; 'roost cock'. The puritan alternative to cock)

 

[Robert Blosl]

My wife and I went out to eat at lunch and we saw a little girl about four or five years old running around the table like a nut job and my wife said to me Raeford. I said lets move.

When it comes to the English language Political Correctness or what ever you call it there is a fellow who I have followed for over 20 years from Charlotte North Carolina named Robert D. Raeford. He has been in TV and Radio and acting for over 50 years. He gives about a two minute commentary on the John Boy and Bill Radio Show every hour and heard all over the country. He is a real stick in the mud old guy who speaks it like it is. I guess he is my hero to some degree.

When he goes out to eat he and his wife wants to enjoy the moment, the environment and does not want a bunch of little kids running around like they do at a fast food place.

When my wife and I see the young parents and their little kids we ask the waitress put us in a quite section please.

Raeford would enjoy some of the comments on this web site and many times it is nothing more than slang. Like What Ever, You Know ,Stuff ect that young people use and think they are speaking correctly.

In chickens if you contact a real good breeder and ask for eggs or use the word roo this tips him off and most of the time they don't want to fool with people because they are thinking or speaking the feed store language or hobby farm talk or what ever. To him he does not thing they will be serious with his birds and I think many hold off and just sell adult birds that they know are good and not fool around with eggs or chicks.


Its funny to read some of the messages that I get from beginners but I try to be nice to them as you never know I may hit the lottery and find a future master breeder of the future. Just like today I hatched four R I Red bantams little Mohawks and wonder which one of the four will be the best typed one. I have about four or five large fowl chicks looks like three or four of them will be roos.

Well I had a nice day off going to play with some glue and then come in the house and watch TV. Tonight is my favorite night with Sherlock Homes and Watson and Mr. Reese and Mr. Finch.

Steve If you see GOUBBER you tell him Da Ha he will know what I mean.

Yard full of Rocks save this picture I found on a Australian roo site. bob

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ry8ndkMN4os/TRf7F_lSqeI/AAAAAAAAAFc/Nnls2Do9dxo/S220-h/columbian+1.jpg

 

[lildinkem]

I have to say, I think the prejudice against the term "rooster" is terribly snobby. "Rooster" has been around forever. All my egg customers refer to the boys as "roosters". The general public knows male chickens are roosters. Roosters are the ones that crow in the morning and make all the noise. Only serious breeders refer to the older males as cock birds (as I've learned.) In my opinion, we aren't doing ourselves any favours by cramming that distinction down the newbies' throat.

When in Rome do as the Romans eh?

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
I have seen folks at the shows frustrated because they don't understand the "code" ....

I've seen folks DQ'd at the shows because they don't understand the "code" and they entered the wrong thing on the card. The ultimate in humiliation. You don't even get to find out if your bird is junk or not because you messed up the card. Sheesh. I know we should all become experts before we bring our birds out but that simply isn't reality.

I like to think places like BYC and this forum are a good place for folks to come to learn without being subjected to ridicule and that is not always the case. The folks here on BYC HAVE adopted a language, like it or not, right or wrong, origins from multiple sources. We rely on folks like Walt and NYREDS etc., to "show us the way". Hopefully, without being too frustrated by our new cutsie language.